To Think Living Abroad is Rarely as Good as People Think it Will Be?

[lesley33]

I lived in Switzerland with young DCs. But the country you visit as a tourist and the country you actually LIVE in, are ime often quite different. We came back after 2 years. And I have spoken to many other people who have "discovered" things about living in a particular country that as tourists they were blind to.

For example, a friend returned from France after hating working there as she found the hierarchial, formal, non team working environment very difficult.

Visiting a country can be great and you can love many things about a country - the scenery, being family orientated, etc. But you don't often get to understand the negatives of a country. I have lost track of the amount of people I know or meet who say - i would love to live in x country - without any understanding of the realities. For example - no you wouldn't as x country is well known for having very negative attitudes towards people with SN like your DC.

So AIBU in getting frustrated at this. I know secretly I probably am as I was one of those people.

I lived in Cyprus for a while and really miss it. If I could, I would move back tomorrow - but it wouldn't be the same. When I first came back I hated it and looked into emigrating. The reality was very different.

For one, we lived in Military accom, so no worries about the electric being turned off twice a week, or the water going off at the height of summer. I also didn't have to worry about buying bottled gas and could leave the aircon on all night. Where we lived was safe, so we didn't need barred windows. Medical provision was simple and effective.

I worked 6am until 2pm and got a good wage. I got extra allowances because the cost of living was higher than UK. Eating out was expensive, so we stayed weekends in hotels instead.

DD was schooled by British teachers in a British school and didn't have to put up with classmates that teachers wouldn't tell off because 'their father is the head of the village and the little one will be'.

Take all that away and all I am left with is the fact that I loved the attitude to children, loved the outdoor life and ^loved the weather. I lived in a little British bubble, well aware that my life was so much easier because the Army made it so.

The reality that my Cypriot friends are living is very different. I honestly thought at the time that I had immersed myself in the culture - I couldn't have been more wrong! So I'll stick with UK and console myself with visiting my friends.

Living abroad not only allows you to make discoveries about the country you move to - good and bad - but also gives you a new and valuable perspective on the country you moved from. I've been living elsewhere in Europe for several years now and absolutely love it. In fact, though I miss my friends and family and roast beef and yorkshire pudding like you wouldn't believe, and though of course I'm not saying I might not at some point change my mind, I currently have no desire whatsoever to return to England at all!

pointythings, very interesting post.
I know many Italian people who felt incredibly liberated when they moved to the UK. It has to be said though that most of tehm came from small, provincial towns and moved to London.
I didn't have the same feeling, and I think it's because I am from Milan and I moved to a small town in the Uk.
But I soon discovered that the great asset of the Uk is that as an individual you have the freedom to change your life much more than in Italy.
The sense of humour is great. The Guardian has no equals. The Bbc. I am not so sure about the Nhs, but that is because the italian Asl still works rather well...

Living away is very good for if/when you return to your home country. You appreciate it more.

I'm moving back to England after 18months abroad- I cannot wait!! I completely empathise with MiseryBusiness.

Living away is very good for if/when you return to your home country. You appreciate it more.

We're Irish but living in England, and have done 2 stints abroad, I'd say living in other countries makes you see things that "could be done better" in your own (like healthcare for example...) and you can then never fully settle in any.

My experience is that the people who do least well are those who try and create "little England (or whatever home country)" in the new country and pine after home food, culture, lifestyle etc etc rather than adapting to the local stuff. That behaviour also puts off those locals who would be friendly.

Overall I think the UK fits us best because of the tolerance and humour. Sounds trivial, but I think its a symptom of many other good things

(Btw OP, I have good friends in Switzerland, they too are finding its rigid social structure quite eye-openening)

I cannot not live "abroad". I have lived for very extended periods in three countries, including England, and am able to analyse each country and know what I like or dislike in each. What I cannot do is fit seamlessly into a single culture.

It's fine!

Whatmeworry - interesting interpretation of my post. I have lived in 5 other countries and absolutely loved them all. Was hard to leave each time. Somewhat reluctant to return "home" but turned out to be best move ever. All my time away (and advancing age no doubt) honed my appreciation skills no end.

Came as a surprise as I never pined for my home country. I think life just gets better and better...

I get what you are saying though about people who emigrate then bore on to adopted land-locals about things being better at home. Aren't they too boring.

I live abroad and if ever I mention to anyone back home that we are going on holiday it is met with surprise as I am apparently already on holiday!

I lived in NZ for a year and enjoyed it. I could have lived there happily if it had been nearer the UK for visiting family but it didn't seem worth rarely seeing them for. I like the Uk though, I like our climate, I like having proper seasons, I like the countryside and generally the people, except the "poor me" attitude some have and tendency to look for propblems rather than solutions.
Most of the people on "wanted down under" seem like idiots we shouldn't inflict on any other country though. They either have unrealistic expectations of a bit of sunshine transforming them from couch potatoes into fit athletes or expect to live in a mansion and walk into a plum job, then there are the ones who make a song and dance about how much they'll miss their extended family and make you wonder why they wrote to the programme in the first place, and suspect it was just for a free holiday.

"What I cannot do is fit seamlessly into a single culture."

Exactly! There were many aspects of the "Italian culture" (or the Italian way of doing things) that I couldn't stand or relate to even before moving to the UK.
Likewise, there are aspects of "the English way of doing things" that I didn't agree with.
And then if I could mix the things I like the most of the UK and Italy, I would create a perfect country

I love to travel and would love to experience living in a different country but appreciate that nowhere is as perfect as some people like to believe.

The emigrating to Australia programme makes me laugh because they all say that they want to move to Australia for a stress-free outdoors lifestyle, what makes them think that is what they will get?

Cost of living in Australia is very high, they will be stressed working all the hours to pay their massive mortgages and won't have time to experience the outdoors which by the way we do have in this country too!

I don't think there is a "single culture" in many countries though. I think that is why I have a problem with the idea of a national identity. I don't think there is a British/ English/ Scottish way of looking at life or set of personality attributes.

theodorakis doesn't it bother you that while you're 'alright Jack' many of the local population and migrant workers are hideously ill-treated?

I'm genuinely not having a go at you, but I've always thought I wouldn't want to go and live in most of the Middle Eastern states for this reason.

I agree Rebecca2, absolutely. A country hosts all sorts of cultures, political views, tastes etc.
But there are some evident differences in a way a country deals with some important issues or solve problems or looks after its citizens, for instance.

My family and I have recently left the UK and moved to New Zealand.We love it. I could write you a big list of reasons why. The only thing I miss is my family and friends

What me Worry

Agree with you, that those who are least successful don't adapt to the local culture and complain that it is not like their home country.
Fellow expats in China who moan about the dirt and the chinese spitting drive me nuts. They came on the 'look-see' trip and saw this - why would things have changed?

I'm Irish and I've lived a total of about 3 years in England. I had no great expectations when I moved here, in fact, I expected it to be very similar to living in Ireland. It's actually quite different in a lot of ways. I have to say, though, overall I much prefer living in England and though I do miss some things about Ireland I don't think I'll ever go back permanently. Part of the reason is that I don't miss my family, at all, apart from my sister who is hopefully moving over here in the not too distant future.

I do find it very odd that people can't see that life in every country is pretty much the same in a lot of ways, but cultural and language differences can make living anywhere but your home country very lonely. I'm helped by the fact that DH is English and his family live here so we're not on our own and we're not totally "foreign".

YANBU.

Lived in Greece for a few years; to be honest, I found it easier when I was working my butt off in the hotel bar from 5pm to 9am. When I was suddenly 'chosen' (that's how it seems in hindsight) as a bride by the guitarist in 'my' backing band, that's when it got nasty;

Locked up in an apartment in the middle of nowhere, forced to give up my job, living in dire poverty where it was cheaper to smoke than to eat. (That's why I was a size zero!) Spied on by our landlady who had been given the task of keeping me in line whilst Himself was at work - though ironically it was her who helped me escape and then she escaped her prison a few months later (though obviously, according to the village, as I was an 'English whore', that was my fault, obviously).

On the rare occasions I was allowed out (heavily chaperoned by Himself, natch), the villagers would all stop what they were doing to stare at me (even though I did all that I could to assimilate), and the 'witch rumours' reached such a level that I would lie awake, seriously terrified they would come and drag me to a stake in the square. He seriously fucked with my mind by telling me "Your family do not want you, I am your family now" and told me that my friends hated me; turned out they had clubbed together to get me a ticket home as they had figured I was in trouble.

When I found out that I was pregnant with my eldest (I was not allowed to refuse, or use contraception), I searched my soul, not being able to bear single motherhood, but knowing that if I gave birth there, if I didn't escape NOW, my child and I were doomed. Landlady let me use her phone to call my family and make arrangements. I did my ShirleyValentine in reverse.

Himself was still calling mothers house, asking me when I was going back/when were we getting married, six years later.

So all that, plus the rampant xenophobia and misogyny (thank you for giving us those words, Greece!!) I witnessed amongst other things, have hugely coloured my view of living abroad. I still lie awake terrified he'll get her snatched. I went from being a confident, sociable butterfly who flew across Europe at midnight to sing on stage, do cabaret and assist magicians and serve cocktails with a flourish, to being the scared almost-agoraphobe dumpy moth that I am today.

I don't think I could even contemplate living abroad ever again due to being so bloody damaged by the first time. The grass is in no way greener, but scorched to death by the sun. I know not everywhere or everyone is like those I encountered - but I'm so messed up by the first time that I could never trust it again.

Holy fuck Lunabelly.

Holy. Fuck.

My God I hope you are OK now.

Lunabelly

Lunabelly and Houdini, your experiences certainly highlight the horrors of marrying into a misogynistic society. I am so sorry you both went through that.

I, too, have been turned into a "scared almost-agoraphobe dumpy moth" by abusive men - in England! It must be so much more damaging when you're geographically trapped as well as psychologically.

I had just popped back to this thread to add that, whenever I'm away, I end up missing British tolerance. We underestimate ourselves in this respect (or we call it uncaring) but I think we should celebrate our cheerful appreciation of individuality/eccentricity! Where many other societies feel entitled to judge strangers on their dress, housekeeping, religion, sexuality, etc, etc ... Brits go "Doesn't do any harm, leave them be" :)

I don't like British drunkenness, though. Everybody else seems capable of getting well-lubricated without losing the plot.

Lunabelly, that's horrific.

I've lived in 4 countries, and loved each one; although none were a "permanent" move, which I think makes a huge difference. I was in Sudan for 2 years, and it was fantastic, BUT (unsurprisingly!) I definitely wouldn't want to go there and feel that I was not able to leave! IMO is a v different mindset to settle somewhere permanently and to live somewhere for a couple years or so.

of course it's different, I'm surprised you didn't think it would be. And 2 yrs is just a settling in period and is often unsettling. Have lived in a few countries and have loved and disliked (even hated) different things about them. What i do like is that I appreciate the good things about my own country that i might have previously taken for granted and that i've lost that feeling of 'my country and the people are the best in the world' mentality that many people have when they have never experienced life away from home. I certainly don't have that blind national pride I used to once have.

I agree though that the UK is great for its tolerance and humour.