to be a bit bitter about inheritance

[ShagOBite]

I had a horrible childhood, and lived in poverty. I won't get an inheritance.

Friends of mine had lovely childhoods, the best education money could buy, and as many boosts as possible to their careers. They are already much more privileged. They don't need any more money now, as their careers are ticking along nicely, and still get parental help when they can't afford a new conservatory or whatever.

Soon enough, their parents will die and leave them with even more money. That they don't need. And so the cycle continues.

I know it is bitter of me, I don't like feeling like this, but it is so unfair. I've had to work so hard to make a success of my life, it is so frustrating when others get handouts for nothing. Some of my friends have hardly ever worked, safe in the knowledge that they will be fine and dandy in a few years.

I get the argument that you work hard to provide for your kids. But if it stops them from working hard, and especially if it's 'old money' (ie. the working hard bit was done generations ago) it seems so unfair.

AIBU?

I think inheritance is one of the biggest social dividers of all. It retains wealth and privilege in the hands of relatively few, and really does mean that there is no level playing field.

However, it is never going to be outlawed, because every single person who thinks they might be able to leave a few hundred opounds to their offspring would be outraged at the though that it would be confiscated by the state.

In addition, getting rid of inheritance would only encourage people to transfer money to their offspring during their lives, and there is no realistic way of stopping that.

Agh I'm not usually actually as bitter as it sounded last night, just trying to figure out what I can do for my sister.

When she left uni she left the country, as she is so terrified of the student loans co. who were harassing her to pay back the loan immediately as he didn't complete the course. She can't. Ever since, she is playing catch-up. She has quite a good job, but in a dangerous situation that she is scared of, and can't get out because of money. It is just so sad that I can't sort this out. I've paid for all kinds of things over the years for her, and simply don't have enough to sort it all out. I have a family to care for.

Those who say people would rather have their parents than inheritance are spectacularly missing the point. I'd rather have a caring family too. I'd rather had a dad who was alive, who wasn't an addict, and who didn't abuse everyone in the family, but that isn't a possibility. What's your point? (Still bitter, sorry!) I'd rather have a mother who wasn't mentally ill and siblings who weren't utterly traumatised. But as I can't have those, I will work bloody hard to make sure my children don't have these issues. AND to make sure other children don't. But it's too late for my mum and my siblings. That I can't stop being cross about.

I am more than happy to help my friends celebrate a promotion at work, that means that they will earn £100k instead of £85k, and the reason I am happy to do so? Because that friend is accepting of the fact that if his PARENTS hadn't had the money to support him through Uni, meaning he didn't have to work FT at night like so many others did, he wouldn't have got the degree results he did, because he was fully rested, having NOT had to work a 10-hr night shift and then go straight to Uni - which meant he could concentrate on his dissertation, rather than wondering how to make one pack of noodles stretch to do 3 dinners.

He respects the fact that his PARENT'S and GRANDPARENT'S money gave him a much better start in life, and that not everybody GETS those opportunities.

It is the ATTITUDE of some people that have family money behind them that makes the difference - the ones who are humble about it, and appreciative of the extra opportunities that have been given to them because of their families money, are not going to make us feel 'bitter'.

However, the ones who tell us their parents worked hard to pass money down (which implies that OUR parent's didn't work so hard), make us feel angry because they are ignoring the fact that our parents and grandparents may have worked JUST as hard, or harder, and they STILL had no money to leave. The ones who tell us that we are hypocritical because we would leave our dc money make us feel angry, because we KNOW that there is no way we will be able to, and we know just how many opportunities will NOT be there for OUR dc because of that. Those who tell us that they will lose 80% of it to inheritance tax, so we should stop complaining, make us feel angry, because that 20% that is left over is STILL more than we will ever be able to pass down to our dc BEFORE inheritance tax. Those people who say these sort of things are the ones that make us feel bitter.

It sounds like your sister has to talk to the student loans people and sort out realistic repayments.

I don't want to be harsh but it also sounds like she has to sort this one out herself. Appreciate your wanting to help her as much as you can, but she should be able to sort this out with some phone calls and a second p/t job? She is lucky to have someone looking out for her though.

I don't see that inheritance is the only way to 'get a leg up'.

My parents were not particulary well off, but they gave me a leg up by supporting me through university - although back in the 1980s there were no tuition fees and I had a full grant. However, I worked in the holidays and lived rent fee with my parents.
I will therefore be able to leave my children an inheritance (if I were to die tomorrow), not because of a hand out from my parents, but because of their belief in education.

Ah, unfortunately it isn't as simple as that. :)

Shag the care system in this country is horrible, and it is that that needs fixing IMO.

If your sister came home, could she get a job here doing what she does now and pay off her loan? Or is there any way she could finish her course and therefore be able to pay the loan back only when she can afford to? My cousin dropped out of his uni course and is now going back over 10 years later to finish it.

I think it's perfectly normal to feel pissed off about this in principle. Life isn't fair, and there isn't some universal equaliser who makes sure that those who had it easy financially have to 'pay' in other ways. The truth is that money cushions you from the worst in life and has a way of staying with those who hold it. The only people who say "money can't buy you happiness" are those who've never had to go hungry or faced their home being repossessed. Money may not make you happy by itself, but it sure as hell makes being unhappy a lot more bearable.

However, the way to deal with this is to channel your anger in a more abstract way. Nothing you can do or say will alter your position or that of your friends in the here and now. They don't deserve misfortune any more than you do. So instead, think about what you can do about it for future generations.

In my case, I have no problem with some people being filthy rich. And I'm happy for wealth to vary according to merit. Some people work harder than others, etc. However, I want to see a huge social change concerning equality of opportunity. I want to see a child born to the poorest in society given the chance to go to a good school even if it's in the middle of a sink estate (in other words not requiring the parents to move or play the system to go to a school out of catchment area). I want to see that child able to access a local library within walking distance or a bus ride away, and to be able to take part in numerous horizon-broadening, extra-curricular activities that do not have fees. I want to see that child have full funding to go on to university, etc.

Life isn't fair. Trying to pretend it is so you don't become bitter is a fool's exercise and just leaves you with massive cognitive dissonance. If it bothers you that much, the only solution is to do something about it. And you can still take enormous pride in the fact that you've achieved everything you have on your own merit.

Why do you think you should get something for nothing, Hunty?

That's the idea behind setting up her own company. The Catch 22 is that she can't do it until she's earning enough to relocate an get equipment, an enough to secure her debts, so she's doing her job - with nothing left over to save. And a secure contract that won't allow work elsewhere.

Sorry, this has become a lot more specific and personal than I intended.

I would guess most of the friends you describe had a family member a few generations ago who was in your situation and turned things around. This would have been harder in many ways than it is now. Very few middle wealthy people today had anything a few generations ago.

I would look at it that you are the first generation to make a difference just like your friends parents/grandparents or great grandparents probably. Look positively than negatively and you'll always be happier in the long run.

I DON'T think that I should get something for nothing. I think that those who HAVE had something for nothing (inheritance) should have a little understanding and humility about the difference it has made to their lives, and look further than their OWN sphere of experience to see what NOT having had that help would probably have meant for them!

'My parents were not particulary well off, but they gave me a leg up by supporting me through university - although back in the 1980s there were no tuition fees and I had a full grant. However, I worked in the holidays and lived rent fee with my parents.
I will therefore be able to leave my children an inheritance (if I were to die tomorrow), not because of a hand out from my parents, but because of their belief in education.'

Can you not see that if they HADN'T have had the money to support you through Uni, that you would have had to work not just in the holidays, but while you were trying to study and write your dissertation too? Through term-time, in order to eat and pay your rent? It doesn't matter HOW much you 'believe in education' - if you can barely afford to pay your OWN rent, then you can hardly afford to pay rent for your child at Uni, can you! It IS because of a 'hand-out' from your parents that you will be able to leave your dc an inheritance - if you had gotten into serious debt to go to Uni, and had to take out massive loans that left you in the situation the OP's sister is in, then you WOULDN'T HAVE THAT INHERITANCE TO HAND DOWN.

Yes that is certainly true for me.

My Mum's parents grew up with nothing, their parents were miners and graveyard supervisors. My Grandad was fortunate to get a scholarship so that he could stay at school until he was 18 and then go to uni. He got a 1st and became an academic.
My Dad grew up poor, and swore he wouldn't stay like that. He put himself through medical school by working on the motorways in the holidays (very small grant but his parents couldn't help him at all).

My DH grew up poor, in part due to a feckless, alcoholic father. He didn't go to uni, and started working on a shop floor when he was 18. He has ploughed his way up and now earns very well.

Yes I was funded through uni, and my parents helped me out with a deposit on my first house, and for that I am very, very grateful. I hope we are able to do the same for our children.

I think you can be humble and appriciative of the fact that you have had the support of family money while still feeling that your parents worked hard for it. Feeling that your parents worked hard to provide you with help does not imply that other peoples parents didn't work hard.

I have inherited, and I am very appreciative of that, I know that in financial terms I am lucky, even though I feel skint a lot of the time. I expect that to piss people off - how can I feel skint when I have inherited a house, but it is all relative.

I resent people thinking that just because I was helped financially I have had everything easy. It doesn't work like that, and people who feel bitter or jealous because of their own financial situation in comparison to that of others often don't look at the bigger picture and see no further than the inheritance.

It works both ways. We need to be glad that there are people who had a lot of financial help because they often pay lots of tax and take far less out of the system than they put in. Or they do voluntary work that society would miss if it weren't there. We need to be glad that there are some people who will work the lower paid jobs because they didn't have the same opportunities, because if those people weren't there, society would crumble as the work they do is very valuable.

It is more beneficial to us all to count the blessings we do have instead of coveting those we don't. It is natural to feel bitter and jealous towards those who have more, even if they do have a good attitude towards it, but I think those feelings come more from dissatisfaction of ones own life than anything else.

"there are people who had a lot of financial help because they often pay lots of tax and take far less out of the system than they put in. Or they do voluntary work that society would miss if it weren't there. "

I think you'll find that the wealthy are the least likely to do voluntary work.

I know how you feel, actually. I know people from very normal families who have 1) had their first house paid for by an inheritance from Grandma, and then made a handsome profit on that house and now live in a huge house, mortgage-free, 2) someone who had a brand-new car, again paid for by Grandma and 3) a couple who got tens of thousands of pounds "help" to buy their house. I also know lots of couples who got five-figure sums to "help" pay for their weddings.

When you have a mortgage and car loans (or an old banger!) it's hard not to feel like it's unfair - not that they have those things, but that they have choices. The first couple have the option not to work for a while when their children are small. They live fairly frugally but will always have a roof over their heads.

We have done well for ourselves, we have loving families who do help us out when they can, and I don't feel bitter but we will always have to work while we have a mortgage to pay and any threat to our income makes us feel very anxious and stressed. We do not have the assets of a house or car or lots of equity that would help us out in hard times. It would not be human not to wish that somewhere down the line we could rely on lots of money coming our way! And it's true that people tend not to acknowledge that they have had lots of help from family because they often assume this is the case for everyone. Just take pride in the fact you have done everything yourself. That is a real achievement!

OP I am sorry to hear that you had such a disrupted childhood. I do think that the quality of services provided for young adults leaving care is absolute rubbish.

Some people do seem to have an easier life (at least financially) although you don't really know the truth of other peoples lives. You also don't know how families have got to where they are. You would look at me and assume that my family and I have always had it easy.

I have a well paid job and have recently inherited money from my Dad. What you don't know is that my mum died when I was 16 consequently I messed up my A levels and had to spend another two years studying in the local tech before going to Uni, my Dad emigrated to the UK from Ireland in the 50's because there was no work, my maternal grandfather worked in the SWales coalfields and DH was a refugee (granted Refugee status under 1951 convention) from a country where his family still don't have running water everyday.

From the outside it looks like we have had an easy life own home, kids in private school etc. but sometimes things aren't as rosy as they seem. It has been a combination of hard work, luck, being in the right place at the right time and sheer bloody minded stubborness that has over a couple of generations got us to where we are.

One of the things I have learnt is that jealousy is corrosive because it causes you to devalue what you have achieved. One thing I learnt from my Dad who knew real poverty as well (rural Ireland in the depression) is to be thankful for everything you have achieved.

I read your OP and see someone who has had an awful start in life but has picked themself up and is doing their damnest to make a better life for their family than they had had. That is something to be really proud of not everyone could do what you have done. You have strength of character and resiliance which means that you can cope with things that might knock other people off track and lets face it none of us can predict what life will chuck at us next. It is frustrating when others seem to have a smoother path but don't let that deflect the focus away from how far you have come.

I disagree with that. Maybe it's true. That the very very wealthy will do less, but in the organisations I work for it is certainly not true.

Those who do a lot of voluntary hours that I know, are people who are SAHM's whos partners can provide for the family on one wage, probably because they have had help through uni to get a job like that and have had help with the mortgage so they don't have crippling mortgages. Or those who have very good pensions and were able to retire in their fifties or early sixties so they have time to spare. Or students who work voluntarily because their parents are helping them through uni so they have time to do voluntary work instead of paid work so it looks good on a CV. Or simply people like me and dh who very definatly have to work to live, but can manage without two full time wages, and are happy without an extravagant lifestyle so have one partner who only works part time and has time to volunteer when dc are at school.

Since I was a teenager, I knew that the only thing I would inherit from my parents when they died would be funeral expenses and if i was really unlucky, debts. So zero expectations meant I knew I had to make my own way in life. Far better that way than to look at what everyone else has.

I know lots of people, both wealthier and not so wealthy who give their time to voluntary activities. Like many things some people are like that and will give their time and others aren't. Its a fact of life.

However, inheritances/ people having money is a good thing. The state is unable to fund everyone's places in old age, those people who do have assets will have to pay for themselves meaning that these inheritances won't be so large. The remainder will be taxed at 40%. More money in the coffers.

I think that if you taxed it at 100% you would have far more people who just give up and say fuck it. What is the point in working so hard if I want to provide for my children and someone is going to take it all anyway?

It is also a fact of life that however hard some people work they aren't going to be able to leave an inheritance, but I think a lot of the point here is that those people who started with nothing but have built it up have worked hard and been LUCKY in addition to this. Its not that they have worked any harder or that some people have worked any less. Luck is a bastard. It hits some and doesn't hit others. You could buy a lottery ticket tomorrow and win millions, or you could buy 100 and not win the outlay back.

Hunty Cat
I think you misunderstood my post. I was at university in the 1980s - had a full grant due to my parents low income and no fees at that time. My parents supported me by not asking me to pay any rent when I was living at home. They did not give me ANY money, but let me live rent free in the holidays with them. The only cost to them was the food I ate as all other bill were the same.
So you are mistaken - my children will receive an inheritance because the government supported me to study for free and I lived on a grant (which did not have to paid back) of GBP 700 per term.

Op - I think you need to let it go, it will eat you up otherwise. It will also damage your relationship with these friends.

I come from a middle class family, money was tight as SAHM, a bunch load of kids and dad was self employed. Myself or my sisters will not have an inheritance. My parents signed over house & land to my brothers, while my parents are still living. There is no money, my dad lives off his state pension.

But that is the way it is, no point in getting all bothered about it. (I will add, this was known as fact from the time we were young, it did not come as a surprise).

I inherited a 'can-do' attitude from my parents, and the belief that if I worked hard enough I could accomplish anything. With that as MY inheritance, I've done pretty well for myself. As a result, my kids will have an inheritance. But they will also be drilled with the need to work hard and to perform to the best of their ability.

I hadn't head 'Comparison is the theft of joy' quote before. How true it is!

ShagO your comment at 10:42 is just appalling.

You are bitter and feel sorry for yourself, and it won't get you very far in life!