To ask you all what the fuck I am supposed to do now with non-sleeping 2yr old

[lecce]

About two weeks ago I posted here about the possibility of leaving my 2.6yr old to cry it out because I can't stand him fussing, bfing and lying bang on top of me all night anymore. I work f/t, on my last legs etc etc.

People were mainly against the idea (as was I, hence the post) but in fact, when I sort of tried it 1 week ago, after 10/15 mins of crying, ds started asking for a toy, I went in and gave it, he snuggled back down. I was ecstatic - had expected hours of hysterical crying.

The first three nights, he did this several times but with the spaces between the wakings extending every night. At no point did he even ask for bf, never mind get one. Great, I thought, we're getting there. The 4th night he slept from 7-4.30 am and then again from 4.40-6am. He has never slept more than 6 hours at a time before and usually only lasts 2/3 so I was so happy.

That was the end of our short-lived success. Since that night, his wakings are more frequent and his crying more fervent. His requests for toys have become ridiculous and he is asking for them just to finds ways to stop me from leaving. However many he has, he asks for more and cries when I try to leave the room - earlier in the week I was leaving with him awake and sleepy with no problems. He is waking every 2 hours and I am spending up to an hour in his room each time. The crying is so loud that I am amazed ds1, in the same room, hasn't woken.

I just don't know what to do. I do all the night-time stuff as dh has MS. In fact, he is well now and has offered to help but he's shit at it and last night got in bed with ds which, though it did give me some respite, is not really a step in the right direction.

Someone on here suggested a role-play thingy which we have done tonight. I also got him to choose a set of bedtime snugglies, showing him that he has the same amount and type as ds1 as he looks up to him. When I tried to put him to bed about 45 mins ago he started asking for a toy dino (only ones we have are hard). He's only doing it as a delay tactic and I want to dsicourage him from asking for random stuff all night so I said no, you've chosen your bedtime toys, here they are etc.

Since then he has been crying hysterically and shouting that he wants a dino. I have been in a couple of times (dh out) and he just gets louder when I go in. I feel so angry with him now . I know that's a terrible thing to say and I don't mean I feel like hurting him but I'm just so incredibly pissed off with this situation.

It's half-term (am a teacher) but I'm just going to feel absolutely shattered all week and then have to go back to work - still shattered. I've had enough. I just keep thinking that the best years of my life - with toddlers/young dc (love this age) are passing me by and I'm not enjoying them at all because I'm so tired all the time. I've been in a foul mood all weekend, snappy etc. We've done ok stuff but no craft etc I don't know, I just feel it's not good enough and all because I can't sort this sleeping business.

I'm sorry for writing so much, just needed to vent, though if anyone has a magic answer - great.

Thanks for reading.

Marking my place. Similar situation to OP

Using CC on our 2 year old meant she was happier, I was happier, my husband was happier, my other child was happier. I was a better mother. We gave our daughter the gift of being able to settle herself, and the gift of good sleeping habits which still serve her at the age of 11.

Snakeonaplane, I was the mother of four DCs, DD3 being the youngest, and pg with DD4, with a H with a very short fuse to deal with (far more trouble than all the DCs put together) who was like a bear with a sore head if he didn't get his beauty sleep 7 nights a week and pretty much a bear with a sore head even if he did. He was no help at bedtime, no support - in fact the opposite - with small children and babies, and usually fell asleep on the sitting room floor after 6 beers nightly.

I managed to get them all fed, kitchen cleaned up, downstairs tidied, and put them to bed when they were tired (no earlier than 8-9 normally) while exH ignored everything going on around him except for the odd bad tempered order shouted from the couch where he would sit downing beers and watching tv. I supervised teeth brushing, said nighttime prayers with the DCs, cuddled them, bfed DD3 and then got her to bed. She would then wake about twice a night and howl and I would attend to her. I think part of the problem was that she above all the others was very sensitive to atmosphere and it expressed itself in her disturbed sleep and nighttime need for comfort; the atmosphere with a bad tempered, heavy drinking father was not a positive one. The others expressed their anxiety in other ways, though all had what could be described as sporadic nighttime disturbance until about age 2.5. I saw the disturbed nights as a symptom of the problem and not the problem iyswim. Unfortunately there was nothing I could do about the main issue.

Once they all got past the toddler stage they became great sleepers. They required no training. Their bedtime is 9 pm and they are up at 7am. I have never had the getting up for bathroom visits, or calls for drinks of water, or other issues with disturbed evenings and bedtime battles that I have heard about. They go to bed and either read for a while or fall asleep immediately.

Bumblemummy - you mischaracteroze CIO it does not mean ignoring them. When they're awake you have to be monitoring them to make sure there isn't an issue that needs intervention. You can use monitors, proximity or an open bedroom door that you pass by regularly. You can even talk to them regularly if that will reassure them you're there and not work them up more. You just don't respond to requests for attention for it's own sake. CIO isn't shutting them in a shed and damn everything else. And, like other methods, it isn't for every child or parent.

FFS Bummbleymummy lets get this straight - I did not leave a baby to cry - I left a toddler - big difference - I didn't totally ignore him - I could see him from half way up the stairs at his stairgate - I could see that he was not in any harm.
Yes - I did not go to him and do the whole CC bit - tried that before it didn't work, I was at the end of my tether !

It was the hardest thing I ever did and have done in 11 years of parenting .

I really don't believe you have been in this position otherwise you might have a bit more understanding why people choose some extreme methods of getting their child to sleep. To call it lazy and the easy option as you did earlier is way out of order and shows no compassion for the whole family situation. A short sharp response to a toddler saved alot of heart ache and god knows what more should the problem persist.

As well as reading my earlier and initial post on the matter people should read your judgemental responses.

I would never leave a baby to cry for hours - that is wrong on all levels - this was a different situation.

I have no problem posters not agreeing with me what I did but YOU just go on and on being so very fucking judgemental.

I think there has been a fair bit of judging from the parents who have used cio or cc, tbh. Lots of cautionary tales demonstrating the 'fact' that if you find other ways to get your baby/child to sleep then you inevitably let your children rule the roost, get no sleep yourself, your children will suffer long term sleep problems and the parents will be ill tempered and their relationships will suffer as a result sounds fairly damning to me!

Not from me - and there has not been personal attacks from them .

where has there been personal attacks?

'lazy parenting and easy option '

Bummblemuumy has made her point that she doesn't agree what I did but she just harps on about it and is the single most judgemental poster on this thread.

I am going to withdraw from this thread as this is about helping the OP and this reallt isn't helping .

Just wanted to post / update in response to Gnome who asked about what happens if I just keep DS down here ("Will he stay awake forever?") and Bumbley about routines.

We dont have a routine with DS1, it doesnt work. I dont care tbh as I dont have a routine in my 30's so not expecting a 3 yo to have one. However I have got to the stage of trying CIO because it is usually 10pm ( at Bumbley thinking 8.30pm is late) before he starts to show signs of being tired. Honestly, 10pm. This is ridiculous, and even then when I take him up to bed he will stay awake until sometimes 11pm.

11pm, for a 3 yo is just a fookin joke, and its mine and DPs fault for allowing it to continue but we were firmly in the "anything for an easy life" camp, and we didnt mind him being downstairs with us.

It has however go to a point though where DS is a total arse grump in the mornings because he hasnt had enough sleep, Im short tempered because I have spent however long of my night before just lying next to a very determined-not-to-sleep child. Not to mention its been ages (6 months) since me and Dp.....you know......because I usually fall asleep upstairs with DS.

Its shit, totally shit, and I was one of the ones who didnt like the idea of letting kids cry, but tbh everything else has failed and its the only thing we havent tried that nearly everyone I speak to says works.

Ypu have to consider the whole family. If child/parents to tired to work or enjoy life then two year old has to go to sleep.

I have always been firm about bed time with my three but unfortunately can't do CC with DD3 as she wakes her sisters and our neighbours. This means she is in our bed every night and we are not getting enough sleep.

Funny CC is now contentious on mumsnet. I remember some very kind ladies sitting with me online while I did it to DD1 and DD2 ( now aged 7 and 5 confident, well adjusted and excellent sleepers)

SP, CIO means leaving a baby/child to cry themselves to sleep for however long it takes. CC involves some form of regular reassurance/ going in to check on them. Many people do just close the door and walk off with CIO. (someone earlier on the thread suggested this). Whether you take that approach or stand outside the door/stay in another room with/without a monitor I'm not sure how you are supposed to know that your child hasn't vomited over themselves or, as my baby DH managed to do to himself at nursery, get himself stuck under the sheet/blanket. It was lucky that my MIL went over on her lunch break, recognised his cry and pushed past the nursery worker who was telling her that it was nap time and she should just leave him.

Avantia, I know you were talking about a toddler. You aren't the only person who has used and/or recommended CIO on this thread. There was a woman a few months ago who admitted using it on a baby who was only a few weeks old. She just put her in her room and closed the door while she went downstairs and turned the TV up to drown out the crying . I don't think there is a magic age where it becomes acceptable to ignore/not respond to/not reassure a crying child for hours. Very few people would admit to ever doing that during he day so I'm not sure what changes at night. Would you put the gate across your toddler's door and leave him there during the day for hours crying for you while you sit in another room listening to him?

Gribble, does he still nap during the day?

I think there is a magic age. I think a two year old is capable of rationalising that you will come back. You've told them to go to sleep,they know they are not abandoned. They eventually go to sleep. I don't see it as this hugely significant thing in a child's life.

Would you do it during the day Norman? Would you leave a 2 year old crying in his room while you got on with stuff around the house?

And the point is with CIO, you DON'T come back.

Bumbleymummy I think having such a judgmental mother will do your kids more harm than if they had to cry for a few minutes to go to sleep.

You are an idiot. HTH.

Lol at hypocrisy - you're judging me!

Also, nomorecake, we're not talking about 'crying for a few minutes' here. We're talking about leaving them to cry for hours. HTH :)

Because you have come on here attacking people who are just doing their best. You go on trying to do your best and stop judging what other people do. Your youngest is 2. You have a lot of parenting to come so I'd leave your judgey pants firmly off until your kids are grown up.

Good lord Bumbleymummy do you genuinely not appreciate the difference between leaving a child who is tired and needs to go to sleep, with leaving a child during the day who is not tired and wants to play?! If you're asking, would anyone leave a child to cry for naps during the day, then i am sure the answer would be yes, if necessary - if the child was tired, needed to sleep etc. But would anyone leave a child who is awke and not needed to sleep, then you know that is tantamount to abuse.

So stop bloody carping on about it, because you are basically accusing eveyone on this threadd, and the OP, of child abuse because they have felt pushed to the limit and desperately trying to do right by their child to get them to sleep, because they are tired and because everything else has failed.

get off your high fucking horse. You've got a bloody long way to fall.

And i never post like this, so you have really pissed me off!

Well of course not during the day - but the point is it's bedtime when children go to sleep. I don't understand your point

Oh Bumbley why don't you call social services and try to report someone for using CC or CIO. See how far you get.

I only pull the judges pants on for a few things NoMoreCake, just as I'm sure you do (like now for example!) CIO is one of those things. Are you saying you agree with the mother who left her 5 week old baby to cry for hours while she watched TV? You're going to support her in that decision because she was 'doing her best'?

We are talking about toddlers not 5 week olds. Like I said call Social Services and see what they say. You obviously don't believe what rational people on here are saying.