To ask you all what the fuck I am supposed to do now with non-sleeping 2yr old

[lecce]

About two weeks ago I posted here about the possibility of leaving my 2.6yr old to cry it out because I can't stand him fussing, bfing and lying bang on top of me all night anymore. I work f/t, on my last legs etc etc.

People were mainly against the idea (as was I, hence the post) but in fact, when I sort of tried it 1 week ago, after 10/15 mins of crying, ds started asking for a toy, I went in and gave it, he snuggled back down. I was ecstatic - had expected hours of hysterical crying.

The first three nights, he did this several times but with the spaces between the wakings extending every night. At no point did he even ask for bf, never mind get one. Great, I thought, we're getting there. The 4th night he slept from 7-4.30 am and then again from 4.40-6am. He has never slept more than 6 hours at a time before and usually only lasts 2/3 so I was so happy.

That was the end of our short-lived success. Since that night, his wakings are more frequent and his crying more fervent. His requests for toys have become ridiculous and he is asking for them just to finds ways to stop me from leaving. However many he has, he asks for more and cries when I try to leave the room - earlier in the week I was leaving with him awake and sleepy with no problems. He is waking every 2 hours and I am spending up to an hour in his room each time. The crying is so loud that I am amazed ds1, in the same room, hasn't woken.

I just don't know what to do. I do all the night-time stuff as dh has MS. In fact, he is well now and has offered to help but he's shit at it and last night got in bed with ds which, though it did give me some respite, is not really a step in the right direction.

Someone on here suggested a role-play thingy which we have done tonight. I also got him to choose a set of bedtime snugglies, showing him that he has the same amount and type as ds1 as he looks up to him. When I tried to put him to bed about 45 mins ago he started asking for a toy dino (only ones we have are hard). He's only doing it as a delay tactic and I want to dsicourage him from asking for random stuff all night so I said no, you've chosen your bedtime toys, here they are etc.

Since then he has been crying hysterically and shouting that he wants a dino. I have been in a couple of times (dh out) and he just gets louder when I go in. I feel so angry with him now . I know that's a terrible thing to say and I don't mean I feel like hurting him but I'm just so incredibly pissed off with this situation.

It's half-term (am a teacher) but I'm just going to feel absolutely shattered all week and then have to go back to work - still shattered. I've had enough. I just keep thinking that the best years of my life - with toddlers/young dc (love this age) are passing me by and I'm not enjoying them at all because I'm so tired all the time. I've been in a foul mood all weekend, snappy etc. We've done ok stuff but no craft etc I don't know, I just feel it's not good enough and all because I can't sort this sleeping business.

I'm sorry for writing so much, just needed to vent, though if anyone has a magic answer - great.

Thanks for reading.

grizzling is fine, crying for three hours? not sure I think it's the same. What is described at points in this thread is not 'crying 'a bit'.

I do have sympathy for really stressed out parents though.

jesus ,i have to leave and hide this thread, before my head pops with frustration!

I can't be arsed to go back round and round in circles about cio being different to cc.

I don't think i have ever read posts as patronising in tone as thebody's, astounding!

I do have to say though, that as someone that doesn't have a lot of choice about being sleep deprived, you don't always end up being a screeching harridan of a mother!

right i am going to try and prise myself away from this thread!

Well, what a strange thread (allbeit a very helpful one) this has been for me. I agree with almost everything the anti-ccers have said (unless they've been rude or judgy, obv ) but I have to say that it does seem to work for ds2.

Last night he went to bed fine at 7 (usually does this anyway) and woke at 10, 2 an 4. At 10 and 4 I only had to go in once and he was asleep within 10 minutes, at 2 he was awake for 40 minutes and I went in every 10 minutes or so.

What is so great for me, apart from the extra sleep, is the fact that when I woke at 7ish, the dc were already playing in their room and had clearly been awake for a little while. T]They stayed playing for another half an hour until I went in. Only a couple of weeks ago I was sad that ds2 had NEVER woken without either crying (hard) or looking for bf. Now he wakes up and gets playing with his brother - hard to see that as a bad thing or believe that he's feeling neglected.

When I went in, he rushed into our bedroom and shouted at dh, "I've slept in my own bed all night!" He sounded really proud - again, hard to see this as anything other than positive. A couple of weeks ago I remember feeling ashamed when I looked at him mid-afternoon and realised that he looked exhausted with bags under his eyes, rubbing them etc . It must be a good thing that we are all getting more rest now.

I suppose our general approach to parenting is AP and, I admit, I have found some comments on this thread about rods for backs etc etc pretty grim, but sometimes you have to parent the child in front of you and accept your own limitations and those placed on you by external factors beyond your control. In the highly unlikely event I became a parent again I would be getting my slings out and co-sleeping again but, atm, I am glad I have taken this approach with this child at this time.

I think DD1 and DD2 cried for nearly 3hours the first night of CC. It quickly got better after that. They were about 12 months old.

I have to get them to sleep by 8pm in the evenings as I have to work/ study so we can afford a bigger house and I can get a decent career on track to allow them a few nice things in life. I am selfish like that.

Also my kids are perfectly well adjusted. They expect me to help when ill/ distressed I am their main comforter. CC made not one jot of difference.

Back to op - CC is a sensible course of action, you are desperate enough and once he's sleeping through everything will feel better.

Congratulations Lecce!!! And congratulations to Lecce's DS. Hope this is the start of much uninterrupted beauty sleep for both of you.

ok, I'm creeping back in here...

I would love to be tippity topp all day long for my dcs, but life isn't like that, sometimes I am down and weary for reasons other than lack of sleep.

But at the moment, because ds has problems with sleep, and problems related to swallowing and the possibility of choking, there are nights when we have just had to get up and sit up with him. But we try and work out ways to maximise the amount of sleep we have, so he sleeps downstairs in the room we are in (otherwise we would spend half the night sitting with him upstairs) and then gets moved to our room, at the moment he is in our bed, because he has had trouble sleeping since being in hospital at Xmas. We have worked out ways, because we have to, so I don't think it is always a case of not sleeping = despair = cc or cio.

hopefully my lovely dds and gorgeous ds will not suffer because of the times when we have lack of sleep caused by our imperfect, muddly lives.

anyway, more importantly - op, i am so glad you have all had some good nights, heres hoping you have many more of them.

Lequeen, I haven't claimed to be vastly experienced or intuitive, I haven't said that everyone should do what I have done or that it would work for every child. All I have done is given alternative suggestions to CC/CIO. In comparison, you have told the OP what she has to do and given some wonderfully extreme examples about the dangers of not doing things your way and how not using CC/CIO results in all manner of problems as well as sharing some wonderful tales of how you managed to 'sort out' other people's children's 'sleep problems'. So, if anyone is representing themself as some kind of sleep training guru, it's you.

Enough of us here have actual experience of not using your methods and achieving the same results. DS1 goes to bed perfectly by himself and has done for years now and DS2 was asleep 5 minutes after his stories tonight. No crying children, no exhausted parents, no excessive pandering required, plenty of time together in the evenings and lots of time to enjoy our children (including our lovely cuddles at bedtime). I know I'm not the only person who has managed this on this thread or in RL. The picture you have painted of these non-CC/CIO methods is ridiculously inaccurate but, considering you have no experience of them, I wouldn't expect it to be.

lecce, I'm glad you are getting some sleep. I just want to point out again that I am not criticising you or the approach you have taken which in no way resembles the CIO methods (ie several hours of uncomforted crying) that some people on this thread have suggested. I'm not sure why people can't see the difference but as Hazey pointed out, we just seem to keep going around in circles saying the same thing over and over! I hope you all have plenty of sleep tonight. :)

Um, plenty of other people have said the same as me LeQueen - on this thread and others. I think the OP (and others in a similar position) can decide what they feel comfortable with doing to achieve the result that they want. Not everyone will feel comfortable with CC so they will use another method (not necessarily exactly like mine - plenty of variations have been suggested) to get the same result. It doesn't always boil down to numbers.

points up the thread

CC is working for the OP. OP is happy. Lovely result.

Yes, I read and responded to that earlier Cly.

Sorry there are too many posts to read so apologies if anyone has already said this but we have just had a breakthrough with 2 yr old DS after months of not settling at bedtime - anything from grizzling to screaming hysterically and constantly standing up (still in a cot) as well as frequent waking. Anyway the new tactic is positive reinforcement telling him how now he's 2 he's a big boy and big boys go to bed and they lie down, close their eyes and keep quiet. But the deal maker has been 'wait until we tell grandma (whom he adores) what a good boy you've been going to bed on your own. You're such a good boy keeping quiet and lying down, we're going to phone her now and tell her' Maybe you could do similar around his DB... 'now you're a big boy like your DB, you can go to bed all on your own etc'
Hope that doesn't sound patronising, I am by no means an expert but have been amazed at the change in DS since we did this, good luck x