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Original poster

To ask you all what the fuck I am supposed to do now with non-sleeping 2yr old

290 replies

lecce · 12/02/2012 19:29

About two weeks ago I posted here about the possibility of leaving my 2.6yr old to cry it out because I can't stand him fussing, bfing and lying bang on top of me all night anymore. I work f/t, on my last legs etc etc.

People were mainly against the idea (as was I, hence the post) but in fact, when I sort of tried it 1 week ago, after 10/15 mins of crying, ds started asking for a toy, I went in and gave it, he snuggled back down. I was ecstatic - had expected hours of hysterical crying.

The first three nights, he did this several times but with the spaces between the wakings extending every night. At no point did he even ask for bf, never mind get one. Great, I thought, we're getting there. The 4th night he slept from 7-4.30 am and then again from 4.40-6am. He has never slept more than 6 hours at a time before and usually only lasts 2/3 so I was so happy.

That was the end of our short-lived success. Since that night, his wakings are more frequent and his crying more fervent. His requests for toys have become ridiculous and he is asking for them just to finds ways to stop me from leaving. However many he has, he asks for more and cries when I try to leave the room - earlier in the week I was leaving with him awake and sleepy with no problems. He is waking every 2 hours and I am spending up to an hour in his room each time. The crying is so loud that I am amazed ds1, in the same room, hasn't woken.

I just don't know what to do. I do all the night-time stuff as dh has MS. In fact, he is well now and has offered to help but he's shit at it and last night got in bed with ds which, though it did give me some respite, is not really a step in the right direction.

Someone on here suggested a role-play thingy which we have done tonight. I also got him to choose a set of bedtime snugglies, showing him that he has the same amount and type as ds1 as he looks up to him. When I tried to put him to bed about 45 mins ago he started asking for a toy dino (only ones we have are hard). He's only doing it as a delay tactic and I want to dsicourage him from asking for random stuff all night so I said no, you've chosen your bedtime toys, here they are etc.

Since then he has been crying hysterically and shouting that he wants a dino. I have been in a couple of times (dh out) and he just gets louder when I go in. I feel so angry with him now Blush. I know that's a terrible thing to say and I don't mean I feel like hurting him but I'm just so incredibly pissed off with this situation.

It's half-term (am a teacher) but I'm just going to feel absolutely shattered all week and then have to go back to work - still shattered. I've had enough. I just keep thinking that the best years of my life - with toddlers/young dc (love this age) are passing me by and I'm not enjoying them at all because I'm so tired all the time. I've been in a foul mood all weekend, snappy etc. We've done ok stuff but no craft etc I don't know, I just feel it's not good enough and all because I can't sort this sleeping business.

I'm sorry for writing so much, just needed to vent, though if anyone has a magic answer - great.

Thanks for reading.

OP posts:
betterwhenthesunshines · 14/02/2012 12:06

Wow - an hour from you each time he wakes! NO wonder he keeps it going. YOu must have the patience of a saint. If it were me it would be first time: " It's night time. Time to sleep." Kiss, tuck up and leave. Wait 5 mins. Go back "It's night time. Time to sleep" Tuck up, ( no kiss) and leave. Wait 10 more minutes and iff the fuss is still going on then "Be quiet and go to sleep" and go back to bed myself and still cotton wool in my ears.

BTW all this shuld be preceded by warm bath, cuddles, stories and calm time etc so he's ready for bed but I'm guessing you do all that. Calm, resolute and don't give in!! You need your sleep and he needs to sleep too.

bumbleymummy · 14/02/2012 12:09

Or you could maybe think of it in the sense that he obviously wants you to stay with him while he falls asleep and he is doing everything he can to keep you in there with him. I wonder how quickly he would fall asleep if you just stayed with him and cuddled him to sleep. It would probably take you a lot less time than running in and out all the time.

tomverlaine · 14/02/2012 12:24

DP started staying in with DS when he woke up - it quickly became something DS expected- and ended up being another habit to break - he wanted someone there constantly- you'd have to stay for hours (literally) while he fell asleep and try and sneak out and if he woke up it all started again - would be fine if you could do it in 20 mins but DP was there all night

bumbleymummy · 14/02/2012 12:39

Really Tom? That hasn't been our experience at all. If he does wake up and come out of his room we just scoop him up and put him back in bed, lie down with him and he's back to sleep in minutes. I'm not saying every child is the same but I don't think that CC is the only solution either which is what most people here seem to be saying.

We have never used CC with either of the boys. As DS1 got older he was happy to just be left to read and then when we turned the light out he would go to sleep by himself. He just got to the age where he was ready to do that and understood that we were just downstairs/a call away.

I almost think that teaching a child that you don't come when they cry is a bit counter productive. They need to know that you are there and that you can hear them and come to them when they need you. How scary to think that no one will come if you are crying because you are scared of something! No wonder then dont want to go to sleep! I think it is better for them to realise that they don't need to you to come rather than teaching them that you won't come. We go to DS2 if he wakes up and cries and he very rarely does it now.

Avantia · 14/02/2012 12:40

My eldest was a little so and so at that age - he just wouldn't settle at night and it was beginning to take its toll as I also had a 8month old.. When my DH went away for work for a few nights I decided I need to sort the matter out .

I just left him cry , he was in a toddler bed and there was a stair gate across his door so he couldn't get out and could come to no harm in his bedroom- it was the hardest thing I ever did and went on for hours - after the second night it all stopped.

Alot will not agree with leaving a child to cry like that but my sanity was at stake.

He is now 11 and I can't now get him out of bed !

nextphase · 14/02/2012 12:41

Sorry not read the whole thread, but we have JUST got my 2.9 yr old sleeping through most nights (I've cursed it now, haven't I??!).
We did 2 hideous weeks of CC just before his 1st birthday, and it didn't make a difference.
What has made a difference is explaining what we expect. It sounds stupid, doesn't it??
We got to the end of our tethers with sitting with him for hours each night, and just sat down one afternoon, and said that Mummy and Daddy were very tired, and we needed lots of sleep, so that we could be fun during the day (we spent half of the weekend "shift sleeping" to catch up). So at night he needed to stay quietly in bed, and not wake us up til breakfast time.
Guess what he did that night??? 10 straight hours!
Its not been every night, but when he wakes now, we go in, tell him its night time, we need to sleep, and ask him to be quiet, and he usually snuggles back into bed and drops off in 5 mins, so we can leave.
I saw somewhere not to tell them to go to sleep, as they can't control that, but they can do what you ask if you request quiet.
Lets just hope his little brother doesn't take as long.
Good luck with it, whatever method you try.

Avantia · 14/02/2012 12:41

My eldest was a little so and so at that age - he just wouldn't settle at night and it was beginning to take its toll as I also had a 8month old.. When my DH went away for work for a few nights I decided I need to sort the matter out .

I just left him cry , he was in a toddler bed and there was a stair gate across his door so he couldn't get out and could come to no harm in his bedroom- it was the hardest thing I ever did and went on for hours - after the second night it all stopped.

Alot will not agree with leaving a child to cry like that but my sanity was at stake.

He is now 11 and I can't now get him out of bed !

Avantia · 14/02/2012 12:42

Sorry for double posting Blush

bumbleymummy · 14/02/2012 12:43

Avantia - what you are talking about is CIO - cry it out - and isn't recommended for any child ever! Sad

Avantia · 14/02/2012 12:46

Well it worked and my 11 yr old has not come to any harm over it .

I really had to sort the matter out .

bumbleymummy · 14/02/2012 12:48

Right...and the laziest easiest way to do that was just to ignore him. Hmm

BigBadBear · 14/02/2012 12:50

This might sound a bit mad (and I've not read the whole thread, so apologies if someone has already suggested this or it has been disregarded as an option), but have you tried explaining to him that you are tired and need to sleep too? I have recently started doing this with my DD2 (who turned two last week), and it has really worked. When she goes to bed (which had become difficult), I say: "I'm just going to tuck your sister into bed, is that OK?" If she says no (which she doesn't usually), I tell her that her sister needs her mummy too, and she usually agrees, though she does ask me to check on her afterwards. If she starts shouting, I just call through from DD1's room: "Mummy's just doing your sister's story, and I can only check on you if you are being quiet." It does work, unless she is poorly.

During the night, if she calls or cries out, I go in, check if she needs anything, then ask if I can go. If she doesn't say yes (which again, she usually does), I say: "But Mummy needs to go and eat dinner/get some sleep because I'm very hungry/tired. Would you like me to check on you in a few minutes?" Again, this generally does the trick, though if she is awake for a long time I may have to go in again about 20 minutes later when she calls out again.

The main thing is that I am only in her room for a minute, if that. It's not CC in that I do engage with her, but the reasoning and explaining really works, as it did for her sister at the same age (and still does - DD1 is five). Being consistent also helps (and I am assuming you have a good bedtime routine).

It is hard when they don't sleep, and I really feel for you doing it on your own. Good luck x

Avantia · 14/02/2012 12:51

No bumbleymummy - you are out of order there - it was not lazy and it was not easy - get off your high horse before you fall hard.

bumbleymummy · 14/02/2012 12:53

Maybe it wasn't easy because your built in instincts were telling you it was wrong.

Avantia · 14/02/2012 12:56

Yes my instincts did tell me it was wrong - but a child that will not sleep together with a younger child in the house and working is not a good combination - have you ever experienced that yourself ? Probably not - when you do come back on and tell us how you feel .

When things at at breaking point you need to get the matter sorted and this sorted it .

piprabbit · 14/02/2012 12:57

Stick with it. If you feel you have to say something to make your presence meaningful just say the same thing on auto-repeat. Make it boring and non-engaging. Something like 'Night-night, time to sleep'.

I really do feel your pain. My DS took nearly 3 years to sleep through properly. At 3.75 yo he is now brilliant 4 nights out of 5.

bumbleymummy · 14/02/2012 12:59

Um...yes, I have actually. I would say most MNers have considering that most of us have more than one child. Most of them wouldn't dream of using CIO either. We did sort it out - without using CC never mind just ignoring them until they give up. You do know that there's a difference between CC and CIO don't you? One of them actually does require parental involvement even if it is minimal.

Avantia · 14/02/2012 13:03

Er yes thank you Bumble mummy - I have explained why I did it - I knew that some would not agree with me and at the moment you are the only MN having a go at me about it .

As I said my DS did not come to any harm and is a healthy strapping 11 yrs old with no psychological issues.

bumbleymummy · 14/02/2012 13:08

Right..and anecdotes are proof now are they? We should all ignore our children because Avantia says it won't do them any harm. Children can be such a nuisance sometimes can't they? What with needing us and all....Hmm

Fwiw some people just keep their mouth shut because they are too afraid to offend someone but I won't keep my mouth shut when someone is recommending that another parent neglects their child's needs. I don't care if you're offended. Recommending that another parent ignores their child is just not on.

Avantia · 14/02/2012 13:13

FGS Bumblemummy you really need to take a chill pill .

I am sure that MN can speak their minds if they want to.

Avantia · 14/02/2012 13:14

and I am not recommending anything to the OP - just sharing with her my experience and that many of us have been where she is .

Astronaut79 · 14/02/2012 13:16

We has this for a while with Ds. He'd go to bed, but be up, the minute we walked out, banging on the door and shouting for mummy/Daddy. Fairly often he would also wake up at 4 am too.

We used to leap up as soon as we heard the banging and it kind of worked like this:
1st time - I'd go up and put him back in, explaining what he should be doing.
2nd time - dh go up and just put him in - no speaking.
3rd time etc, repeat step 2 and keep telling yourself that YOU are going to win, no matter what it takes.

Ds is 2.4 now and the last thing I do with him is to talk about what he did today, tell him how much everyone loves him and emphasise that he's going to bed and has to stay there all night.

Been doing this for the last 6 months, so at 2.6 you ds will definitely understand what he should be doing. To be honest, there were times when we'd let DS cry for a bit because half the time it was sheer temper at being thwarted. You know at this age whether they're crying because of pain/illness or just because they know it makes you come running.

Dreading the fun and games when dd's old enough.

bumbleymummy · 14/02/2012 13:16

I didn't say they couldn't. I said some people wouldn't. I'm not one of them clearly Grin

Avantia · 14/02/2012 13:18

Clearly ...

Babieseverywhere · 14/02/2012 13:29

Only read the OP posts, so sorry if this a repeated suggestion.

It is a big change from cosleeping in same bed as mummy with bf on tap, to own room and bed. Maybe trying an intermediate step for a few weeks might help your son handle the change better.

This could be mattress on your bedroom floor OR an agreement that if he starts the night in his own bed (and goes to sleep without a fuss) that he can come through to your bed when he wakes up.

Have you tried bribery, offering a nice toy for x number of nights in his own bed ?

Good luck, whatever you decide, things will improve at some point. Children's sleep patterns are nothing if unpredictable and highly dependant on personality of child amongst other factors.