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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To be upset with dd1 teacher.

558 replies

lisad123 · 10/02/2012 17:03

I know this is likely to kick off because it's about religion, but hopefully it won't.

We a family we don't celebrate Xmas or birthdays ect. Both dds have been brought up this way and it's never been an issue to anyone (beside PIL but that's another thread)!

Dd1 is 9 and at Xmas her teacher kept making comments about Xmas being the most wonderful time ever, if you don't celebrate your missing out on something special and wonderful and no child should miss xmas. I let it wash as we were taking girls away over Xmas so dd1 wasn't fussed.

Yesterday, someone in her class was giving out birthday sweets. Dd1 refused as she knows we don't join in celebrating bdays. It's never been an issue, we have plently of sweets. Her teacher made a comment and told her it was ok, she should have one and I would never know! Shock dd1 still refused and told me what teacher had said.
When she came out today she told me her teacher had put sweets in her tray, and told her they weren't bday sweets so she could eat them.
Now Friday is the only day we have sweets because she is a sugar addict and gets ratty and obsessive if we allow too many sweets.

So I spoke to the teacher and he said he felt sorry for her and didn't think it was fair. I explained that I understand that but this is our choice and he told me in future he would try not to say anything but he did feel sorry for her Hmm
She wants for nothing and I'm very proud of her for standing up so well to her beliefs.

I'm wondering if she was a religion that didn't eat meat if he would have such a problem.

So am I unreasonable to be upset with him?

OP posts:
entropygirl · 10/02/2012 22:27

okay, so organ donation is allowed but not blood. I am having a hard time imagining what the old testament could possibly have said against red blood cells...especially as they presumably didnt even know they existed at the time. (it said on wiki that plasma was allowed).

Also if you did have a transfusion would you be free of the evil once the blood was gone and you had all your own again? What if I as a previous blood acceptor now saw the light and tried to become JW?

ATaleOfTwoCollisions · 10/02/2012 22:27

What mysteries Lockets?

crunchbag · 10/02/2012 22:28

I think it was very kind of the teacher to give your dd the sweets the next day. Yes he shouldn't have said 'your mum will never know' but then you don't know how disappointed your dd may have looked when yet again she was excluded from normal school life.

PattiMayor · 10/02/2012 22:28

Can I take a wild stab here and guess that you're a practicing JW, ATale?

WorraLiberty · 10/02/2012 22:29

All religions are a mystery to those who don't practise them

rhondajean · 10/02/2012 22:29

I'm going to go now because I've opened the wine and I don't want to get emotional. I am happy if anyone has questions to try to answer and I'm glad some of you have learnt a bit.

If I could ask one thing, it's please don't be rude when they come to your door, I know it's inconvenient but it's a labour of love, please just say thank you but I am not interested. Unless of course they get you out that bath!

lockets · 10/02/2012 22:30

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

entropygirl · 10/02/2012 22:30

coral I think in 100 years time the religious indoctrination of minors will be classified as child abuse. I really think that all religion should be entered into as an adult having made your own mind up.

entropygirl · 10/02/2012 22:31

thanks rhonda for your time.

rhondajean · 10/02/2012 22:32

V quick to entropy - I couldn't answer what is currently allowed and not so ive generalised.

If you had a transfusion before joining, it doesn't count, you didn't know any better, actually I know my mother had.

If you had one while knowing, it would be dealt with through the internal disciplinary procedures, if you were forced to eg a minor with a court decision, it'd viewed akin to a rape.

SecretMinceRinser · 10/02/2012 22:32

Also to the pp who said that the courts can intervene when jw children need blood. That is true but the childs treatment will be delayed which could be devastating in a emergency. Denying kids the most appropriate medical treatment isn't on imo even if it is in the name of religion.

WorraLiberty · 10/02/2012 22:33

We get 2 seperate 'couples' of JWs who knock on our door rhonda

One couple are fine when you smile and firmly say "Oh no thank you very much". They just wish you a good day and walk off.

The other couple make it very difficult to not come across as rude because they don't take no for an answer and have absolutely no respect for the fact you've just told them you're busy and don't want to discuss religion.

So often, it's 6 of 1 and a half dozen of the other when it comes to rudeness.

CoralRose · 10/02/2012 22:33

"People make their own choices based on what they read in the Bible."

But children don't make that choice. They do as their parents tell them. Not brainwashing, no, just excluding them from normal society and socialising (parties, clubs and groups) so as to make it pretty damned hard to break away from. Ridiculous? Ridiculous is forcing children to miss out on some the best memories they'll ever have. Christmas celebrations...what parent in their right mind would want to deny their children of such a magical time? What parent would want to exclude their child from so much joy that everyone else in their whole school is a part of? Ridiculous: Getting het up of a bag of sweets. Can you imagine what lessons this is teaching?!

QuickLookBusy · 10/02/2012 22:35

The teacher should not have told your DD to lie to you. That is totally wrong.

However I volunteer in an infant school and I can understand his fustration.

There are so many tears and lots of confusion with these DC. In the infants they really do not understand why they are excluded from assemblies/not allowed to sing happy birthday/allowed to share cake. They know they aren't allowed but like any young child they do actually want to join in.

It takes a lot of time from adults to try to explain or distract the child, because the teacher knows if x makes a valentines card/has a bit of cake etc, their parents will be in like a shot complaining.

I don't understand why the JW can't just allow their DC to join in, and then talk about it and reinforce their own traditions/customs are. It just seems very narrow minded.

CoralRose · 10/02/2012 22:36

entropygirl - this should be now. It's insane that it's allowed to continue.

The blood thing - for goodness sake!! Who would allow their child to die because of some old book?!

CoralRose · 10/02/2012 22:37

"There are so many tears and lots of confusion with these DC. In the infants they really do not understand why they are excluded from assemblies/not allowed to sing happy birthday/allowed to share cake. They know they aren't allowed but like any young child they do actually want to join in."

Actually makes me want to cry.

It's fucking outrageous. What emotional damage do you think this does to a child?!

lockets · 10/02/2012 22:37

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

mummytime · 10/02/2012 22:39

Sorry but the unreasonable one here is the teacher. I have a friend who is involved with child safeguarding, and actually the teachers actions sound as if they are in breach of the child's wishes here. If the child herself was upset a safeguarding person would have to negotiate between the parents and the child for a compromise.
I would suggest the OP speaks to someone higher up the school, as this teacher is acting very foolishly, and could do with some retraining.

rinabean · 10/02/2012 22:40

CoralRose, they're not cruel, they're not evil. They genuinely believe that allowing their children lifesaving treatments would be worse for them than not. Of course they're wrong, but they are honestly acting out of love. They don't want their kids to die, they are as scared of that as anyone else, but they don't want to do wrong by God even more.

Of course there are JW child abusers, like in any other group of people, but mostly they aren't. They are just totally and completely misguided. Either because their parents were, or because in a moment of pain and weakness they reached out to that person who knocked on the door with all the answers. And so it continues.

rhondajean · 10/02/2012 22:41

Gah! Im still here despite best intentions...

Coral I can assure you I am not emotionally damaged. Supportive parenting is very important to them. I honest don't think that part of it is more emotionally damaging than say wearing glasses or having acne.

Their beliefs are based on the bible, but are also explained to them by a series of publications based on the organisations current understanding of the bible.

manicinsomniac · 10/02/2012 22:42

YANBU, the teacher was well intentioned but wrong to disrespect your wishes.

Maryz, being a teacher includes the ability to differentiate activities so that all children can participate in some level.
When I have a child in my class who cannot do something, for whatever reason, I find an alternative. There is no difference between, for eg:

  • A child who cannot take part in Easter card making because they are JW
  • A child who cannot take part in Easter biscuit decorating because they are coeliac
  • A child who cannot take part in an Easter Egg hunt because they are blind
  • A child who cannot act out the Easter story in a group because they are autistic. In all of those situations I would differentiate - Spring card, gluten free biscuits, special buddy and work with that child's group myself. Easy. Religious needs are no different to any other dietary or special needs in the classroom, you just accomodate them as they come up.

I also don't think it's fair to say that 9 year olds can't hold their own beliefs. Many of the 9 year olds in my class have very firm opinions about the existence or non existence of God. And they include atheist children of practising christian parents and God believers of atheist parents. By 9 they are not little clones of their parents, they think what they want to think.

CoralRose · 10/02/2012 22:44

rinabean - I understand the in's and out's very well. But just because they are misguided, and believe they are doing right, it doesn't make it any less wrong. JW's are some of the kindest people I have ever known, it doesn't make their acts any less cruel or evil, even if they are acting out of love.

rhondajean · 10/02/2012 22:45

Manic that's what I find funny. I have tried deliberately not to steer my children in a y belief but dd1 is 12 and a firm atheist while dd2 insists on praying every night at 7. Although she did say she's wondering about god as she keeps asking him to help her find things and she never finds them...

CoralRose · 10/02/2012 22:45

"* A child who cannot take part in Easter card making because they are JW

  • A child who cannot take part in Easter biscuit decorating because they are coeliac
  • A child who cannot take part in an Easter Egg hunt because they are blind
  • A child who cannot act out the Easter story in a group because they are autistic."

No difference? Am I missing something here?

WorraLiberty · 10/02/2012 22:47

I also don't think it's fair to say that 9 year olds can't hold their own beliefs

Well this 9 year old made a Valentine's card until her Mum explained she wasn't allowed.

So whose beliefs are we going on here?

Children tend to believe what their parents/families tell them...until they're old enough to see the wider picture and think for themselves.

Once a person can think for themselves, that's when they hold true beliefs.

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