to really hate parents describing their kids as "very bright"

[lunaticow]

It really gets on my nerves. I mean, how bright is "very bright" is it in the top half of the class, or the top kid in the class? Just how many kids are so "very bright". My kids are clever enough but I'd never go around posting that they are "very bright".
These parents seem to think it is relevant to everything that their kids are "very bright"?
How smug. Stop boasting and shut up!

mathanxiety I completely agree. I have seen, firsthand, the damage that can be done to children with a fragile sense of self. It has taken my son years to recover his belief in his abilities.

I once asked a young girl in my sons class (I was a parent helper) how she knew that Table X was "better" than Table Y...her answer? "My mum told me it was"

Oh and dont get me started on FB....Sigh. I have deleted my account I was so sick of the boasting and passive agressive comments.

You know what? Thinking back, all this bragging bullshit started for me and my son in nursery These kids were 3/4 FGS!!

One mum kept on and on at me to tell her what words ds1 was being sent home with...seriously!! I avoided her from then on.

I love it when kids achieve (I am the parent regularly in tears at school assemblies when the kids get their certificates etc ) BUT some parents make it a "competition" from nursery onwards. Why??? I dont know.

Other european countries and the parents in those countries do not get so caught up in levels and results as we (and the US) do...in Europe they dont start formal education til age 7 and they have the highest literacy levels in the world (and much better than here and US).

The fact is in the UK our kids have never been so tested/assessed and I cannot see the benefit, other than making kids aware that they are better/ arent as good as others in their class.....neither of which is good for the child concerned IMO.

Definitely think "table awareness" has a lot to do with teacher or parent input. It's big at my friends ds's school and he was recently devastated (as were parents) when he moved down a table. Dd knows what colour her table is and I've a rough idea which one it is but I studiously avoid quizzing her on it and will not entertain discussion of better and worse based on table colour. Some schools overplay it too and turn an almost inevitable classroom management strategy into an incentive for hard work. Makes me .

I find the one friend (not from dds school) who brags is the one who lives through his ds's success.

What is this table awareness of which you speak?

Never have anything to do with nonsense parents who compete academically on behalf of their children.

For me, table awareness starts with not knocking over your water (this took DS approximately 9 years, so I question his brightness) and develops with NOT STARTING TO EAT BEFORE EVERYONE ELSE HAS BEEN SERVED. I cannot tell you how many years that one took to teach. It develops with making conversation that interests and engages everyone - which they are showing some signs of grasping, but are not quite there yet.

Next stop is advanced table awareness - which consists of ensuring your neighbour is served with everything they may require WITHOUT BEING ASKED. This one is tough. Really tough. They're going to get there in the end though .

Quattro

ds informs me that he's in the 3rd from the top table in Maths (that's 3rd out of 5; I admire his positive spin ) and in the 2nd from the top for reading. He'd be top table for reading if he could be bothered, he says

He is in Y6. Until he told me this yesterday, I actually had no idea that they had tables like that, let alone that they knew which was which. TO be fair, I'm a bit of a crap mother

jenai No, not crap, just v v sensible! I like your sons attitude!

I only know which table ds1 is on (I also had no idea about tables etc til another mother kindly explained my ds1 was on "the lowest ability table" ) as he told me - he is v proud that he is "top" of his table for maths and is sometimes asked to help the others on his table...its really boosted his confidence (and hopefully helped the other kids too!)

At ds1's old school the kids would always be asking each other "what level book are you on???" It amazed me tbh, these kids were 6 years old!...at the same age I had no idea what my peers were doing and, frankly, didnt care (too busy playing!).

The teaching of literacy has all gone very odd IMO.......surely the best way to "teach" literacy is to cultivate a love of books - regardless of what level it is???? My son is 8.5 and loves reading The Gruffalo...so he does. No idea what level it is and dont care...he enjoys it and can read it well.

I think my views are a bit old fashioned.....

No idea what level it is and dont care...he enjoys it and can read it well That's been my approach, too. It's just that being on MN sometimes I wonder if I'm the only parent who isn't particularly conncerned with levels.

jenai I too sometimes think I am in a minority on MN wrt this issue

LQ Its not that I object to children being sat with kids who are at a similar level academically (makes sense after all - esp for the teacher!!), its that the parents attitude to what table their kids are on rubs off on the kids who take that attitude into the classroom IYSWIM? i.e. I am on the "top" table therefore I am better than you and mocking kids on the lower ability tables. I have seen what this does to childrens self esteem first hand and it aint pretty

They do differentiate ability by table with practical reasons in mind, or just because that's the way it's always been done, and the children and parents take it the wrong way. It's not necessary either. You can keep track of who is at what level easily without grouping.

In the elementary school in the US my DCs attended it was not done. Each child had a folder in his or her desk (desks arranged sometimes in groups and sometimes in rows) and in the folder were photocopied brain teasers, optical illusions, maths worksheets, words to find meanings of and put in sentences, paragraphs to answer questions on or draw a picture of, prompts to write a few sentences about. When they were finished with classwork they were to open the folder and get going on whatever they wanted to do in the folder. The folders were called 'Never Done Work' and were topped up by the teacher with extra work for each child in individually as they handed in what they had finished. The sort of extra work included in each folder was decided by the teacher.

Children were assigned to different seats every month, so they never got so chummy with their neighbours that they spent all their time chatting. The purpose of grouping was to rein in the freer spirits; quieter and more diligent children were normally put sitting beside the noisier distractible ones.

YABU as I've had to try and explain why ds2 may find some things hard, like he is starting swimming lessons. Because he is so bright his social skills are needing more help and so is managing change and new things. So I needed to explain that he may need more reassurance than expected. I never had to say anything with ds1 who is a bright boy too but not to the extreme ds2 is. For his sale, life would probably be easier if he didn't have needs, but that's who he is and I love him. Saying he's bright is definately not about boasting

Oh and he's 4

LQ I can only speak of my own (and my sons) experiences. He was openly called slow to his face by other children and the teachers (despite me asking them to address this) didnt do anything...in fact his Y1 teacher wasnt bothered AT ALL that a child in his class was showing symptoms of clinical depression after only 1 term in his class - my son was 5.5 at the time.

My son is not "slow" (oh how I hate that term!!) - he has severe dyslexia. He was only dx last Sept and only because I paid an Educational Psychologist to assess him. He is now 8.5.

I have had an epiphany of sorts over the past few months and now realise that no school can help him...they do not have the understanding of dyslexia, the time or the resources. But I do

I am always pointing out to my ds1 what his strengths are - and that we ALL have things we arent so good at (for me its maths.....seriously, he is 8.5 and I cant do his maths homework!!! ) and this seems - finally!! - to be getting through to him.

They may well have a good idea about the Who's Who in class, but when the pecking order has official approval in the form of table groupings their less than appealing instinct to differentiate crudely amongst themselves is given an imprimatur. When academic ability or achievement is kept as a matter between teacher and parent and no visible hint is given in the classroom, children get the message that this is not something to be used against others, and most parents do too.

I really believe it shouldn't be made as obvious in the primary years as ability to run or perform in the sack race on sports day. Once they get to secondary and have formed a better idea of themselves than they had at age 7 or so, and have hopefully developed better manners, then streaming can be done without all the playground fallout -- a lot of children are even 'streamed' by admission to different sorts of schools anyway at that point.

math I agree that in most classrooms the streaming seems to be done for the benefit of the teacher and TA...some classes in my sons school have 32 kids in so it must make sense from their point of view to lump the kids together that need a TA with them full time.

But. as you say, it doesnt have to be like that.

I cant remember streaming in primary - but I am v v old - child of the 1970s!!!

I was LQ Still am tbh.

I took him out of that school, home schooled him for a while (to let him recover more than anything) and he started at a small village primary 15 months ago. He is happy - which counts for a hell of a lot after his experiences - and is actually making academic progress for the first time.

I have always known ds1 wasnt academic...I am, dh is, but he isnt. Its not a biggy for us. My hopes are that ds1 will be able to leave school (whenever that may be) with enough qualifications to get a job he likes and finds rewarding and to "earn his way" in life and be independant.

Am convinced ds2 is destined for the stage!!!

Oh, and btw, I have since learnt that that teacher has been made SENco of that school....you couldnt make it up, could you?

I think parents can get away with saying their child is "very bright" as who is going to know the difference?
I don't don't if my neighbours child could write like Charlotte Bronte do I?
Whereas if I she to say oh my child is a fabulous singer, it would be more obvious that actually they are just average.