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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

We are being watched !!

419 replies

domesticgodessintraining · 04/02/2012 18:19

A friend just called from the Middle East to say that the bored desperate housewives of Dubai are slagging us off ........

www.expatwoman.com/forum/messages.aspx?TopicID=171798

OP posts:
oiwheresthecoffee · 05/02/2012 16:41

I think a lot of the objection is not towards individuals but about the way the country is run and how people are quite happy to go there to make money off slavery and poor treatment of others. In general.

And ofcourse as with all journalism it has to be taken with a pinch of salt. Im sure there are many whom are horrified by the treatment of labourers in Dubai.

But the fact remains that there are some awful things that do go on and I personally wouldnt go to Dubai for all the money in the world because i dont agree with the way the country run not because of the way some people treat their maids. Same as a lot of other countries too. I can see from this thread a lot of others think like me and are wondering how anyone can go out there when they know what can and does go on.

oiwheresthecoffee · 05/02/2012 16:42

country is run even.

fluffybob · 05/02/2012 16:45

But HuntyCat, Britain isn't the centre of the universe. The British minimum wage has no influence on wages here and nor should it - there's no income tax for a start and do you include board and lodging in those rates? I was offered a job as a TA at a school paying less than 3 pounds an hour and I'm degree-educated - I didn't take the job but I have friends who did - there are plenty of westerners being 'exploited' too by your logic.

notveryinventive · 05/02/2012 16:47

hunty Why would a maid be exploited if they got paid well to local standards? They live over there and I believe are not from UK so £3 an hour (for example not suggesting that is the going rate) might be a lot of money to them?

I just dont want to go to dubai because Im scared I'll end up in Jail. Yes I admit this has been taken from articles I have read where women end up in jail for silly reasons like being raped or their arab husband having an affair. It has scared me. Also I think I read that all there is over there is the same as over here, but its just sunnier? Id rather have a different culture. No Dubai isnt for me at all to live or work and I am in no way jealous of anyone living or being somewhere I dont want to be.

won't go into what as those of us posting from here are also watched!
So is that saying even as an ex-pat you are treated unfairly and are essentially told what to do or am I mis-reading that?

GiserableMitt · 05/02/2012 16:51

Women who work as maids in the Middle East are often qualified professionals such as midwives and teachers.
They go to the ME to work as maids because they can earn more as maids than they could in their own profession back home.

Filipinas must earn a minimum of £260 per month (that's the minimum stipulated, the majority of employers pay considerably more). With this wage many of these ladies put their kids through school and college education, and buy land on which they build properties, not to mention support the extended family back home.
Many ladies working as maids also earn more than their fellow countrymen in office jobs within the Middle East.

PiousPrat · 05/02/2012 16:51

If the cost of living is not the same in Dubai, then I fail to see how you can compare wages either.

I have a friend who splits her time between the UK and Thailand as she has family in both. A weeks wages here equates to a months worth of costs and going out money there. She chooses not to work when she is in Thailand because the wages are so low she'd have nothing to bring home and it would cut into her socialising time there. She has said though that if she settles there then the wages would be perfectly adequate because the cost of living is so much lower. It's all relative innit.

SaraBellumHertz · 05/02/2012 16:57

I think if we only visited, travelled to, spent money with countries/organizations that acted equitably at all times then we would be hard pushed to leave the house. Corruption and ill treatment of migrants and citizens alike is not an isolated issue.

I will no doubt get flamed but for the purposes of comparison my maid (who I would ordinarily refer to by name but won't here for privacy) is paid approx £500 PCM and has her own accommodation (ensuite room, separate entrance, small kitchenette) she works 5 days for a couple of hours in the morning and a few in the afternoon when the kids come home from school. So yes less than UK minimum wage but 4x what a teacher earns in her home country. Not sure how that would compare with an au pair in the UK.

She eats what we eat or whatever she requests I purchase on the weekly shop, I pay for all toiletries and phone bill.

I pay her medical insurance (plus any excess or prescriptions if she needs treatment) and also one flight to her home country per year. She gets 30 days off + a mix of Christian and local holidays and the additional time when we are away. I do not keep her passport.

She has a boyfriend here and has bought a house outright in her home country as well as a business for her sister. I am aware that many domestic workers are not as well treated but I would say amongst western expats the situation I have described is increasingly the norm.

desertgirl · 05/02/2012 16:59

HuntyCat, I know what you are saying but it is slightly naive. Minimum wages are different everywhere; there is a reason for that - you can't just fasten on to the UK minimum wage and say anything else is exploitation.

Almost every housemaid I have come across here sends the vast majority of her income back to the Philippines or Sri Lanka or wherever it is. They don't need much of it here in the UAE; accommodation is provided; food and toiletries are supposed to be provided, as far as I can tell the Filipino network here looks after itself in terms of providing everything for less (unofficial "taxis", etc) - in any case, the government of the Philippines, for example, sets its own minimum wage for overseas domestic workers, and it is absolutely nowhere near the UK minimum.

I"m not justifying anything; yes there are people here who pay ridiculously badly (most such people are not British expats) but the thing is there are still girls falling over themselves to come here - and these are cousins, sisters, daughters of maids already here, it isn't people being ripped off by dodgy agencies. So the 'slave' owner (is it slavery if you are paying the applicable minimum wage? not everyone does, but many people pay more) is giving someone employment, who wants employment, and supporting several people back in Sri Lanka/Nepal/the Philippines/Ethiopia. Whereas the people who sit and wring their hands and say that this is appalling - may have a point, but generally aren't doing anything at all for those people, who do desperately need it.

YOu can't change things from the outside muttering in. You can't, either, expect that if you turn up somewhere you will instantly improve it. But things are getting better here and elsewhere in the ME, and I firmly believe that some of that is attributable to the quiet, persistent, influence/persuasion/etc of expats just doing what is in their power to do.

desertgirl · 05/02/2012 17:01

aaagh, I spent so long writing the last post that it became entirely superfluous because everyone else had already said it. Better.

LunaLunatic · 05/02/2012 17:04

notveryinventive free speech is not the norm in the Middle East and the internet is often monitored for libelous comments. Slurs against the governments, bad language etc. are illegal and can be prosecuted against.

desertgirl · 05/02/2012 17:09

wheres the coffee, I think a lot of what is published in the papers in the UK is simply incorrect. Not sure which article was linked to earlier but there was one in the Independent a couple of years ago that while being lousy journalism, got some interesting discussion going - see eg dubaithoughts.blogspot.com/2009/04/most-vitriolic-piece-on-dubai-so-far.html

desertgirl · 05/02/2012 17:13

Luna, that is giving a distinctly misleading impression. Yes there are some things which are better left unsaid, or at least phrased very carefully, but how many people have you ever heard of being prosecuted for using bad language? or joining in with the usual Dubai moans?

notveryinventive · 05/02/2012 17:17

luna And that is why I really really dont fancy Dubai. I know whats right and wrong here (well mostly - there's lots of silly laws), but I wouldnt get a fair trial in Dubai as Im a woman. So Im led to believe anyway.

Portofino · 05/02/2012 17:18

Plus the whole place is built on the proceeds of crime. Not every investor is dodgy but many are, particularly the initial ones.

fluffybob · 05/02/2012 17:21

It wouldn't be because you're a woman - it would depend more on your nationality...

sandycandy · 05/02/2012 17:23

This is my first post on here (after following a thread on Expatwoman) and quite honestly I cannot believe some of the things that have been said on this thread regarding Dubai! I live in Dubai and yes I have a maid, I pay her very well, give her accomodation, food and flight home every year. In relative terms she is saving in one month what she could only dream of earning in a year in the philipines - all her salary goes home and pays for building her own house for her family, she is extremely happy - ethically I can sleep at night, if she did not have this job she, and her 7 children (which incidently are going to school and uni solely because of the money she can send home) would be on the streets, period. There is NO work in the philipines. My husband and I are in Dubai because he is in construction and there is NO work in the UK - we are all here because we have to be and not necessarily because we want to be. However, life here is pretty good, there is little crime, women ARE treated with the upmost respect, education is excellent, there is no grafitti (or syringes lying by the swings) in parks, lager louts are dealt with how they should be in the UK, and thank god there is NO SEX ON THE BEACH. Every time I return home, I am, quite frankly, disgusted with how uncivilised the Uk on the whole is becoming. Given the choice now, I would rather live in Dubai - its not perfect but the UK is far from it - now come on ladies, stop being so bloody narrowminded and slating a country that you have never even set foot in, Unless of course you want to believe everything you read in the tabloids.

LunaLunatic · 05/02/2012 17:23

Desertgirl no it isn't giving a misleading impression at all. First, see FCO advice "Offensive gestures and bad language used at other drivers can lead to fines, a jail sentence, and possibly deportation"

Second, personal experience.

If you don't believe me then why don't you try swearing at someone this weekend and see what happens?

I'm not talking about moaning, I'm talking about (as I clearly said) "Slurs against the governments, bad language". That was in response to a question from another poster.

Here are a few links to demonstrate my "misleading impression":

www.thenational.ae/news/uae-news/courts/woman-convicted-of-making-obscene-gesture-claims-she-was-harassed

www.thenational.ae/news/uae-news/man-facing-deportation-for-making-a-gesture

www.thenational.ae/news/uae-news/courts/man-fined-dh2-000-for-swearing

desertgirl · 05/02/2012 17:25

oh portofino sorry that is nonsense. A lot of the place is built on the proceeds of trade (very handy location and a good collection of very savvy traders in the earlier years, both Bedouin and Iranians who settled here), transport (again handy location) and tourism (sunshine).

Yes the proceeds of crime comes into it (as with a lot of places; if you go back to when the UK was 40 years old, you'd probably find a fair amount around) but to say the whole place is built on it is ridiculous.

domesticgodessintraining · 05/02/2012 17:26

I read in the paper that someone was sent to prison in the UAE for saying damn!!

OP posts:
desertgirl · 05/02/2012 17:26

OK, Luna, sorry, I thought you meant swearing on line (which I really have never seen anyone being prosecuted for) no arguments with the 'don't give the finger to other drivers' advice

sandycandy · 05/02/2012 17:27

would that be the News of the world domesticgodess?

LunaLunatic · 05/02/2012 17:28

By the way I'm not Dubai bashing, I just don't think it helps to be blinkered and deny reality, that's exactly why so many people criticise expats here. There are a lot of great things about living here, none of which (for me) are to do with money, bling, malls etc. More to do with, for e.g. when my tire burst and I had several cars stop to offer mobile phones, water, offers to change the tire...little things like that which I haven't had at home.

Look, nowhere is perfect. Just as with any other big city, there are issues here. But this is a new country, very new, and they have come A LONG way in a short period of time. Give it more time, and things will improve even more.

OP posts:
desertgirl · 05/02/2012 17:37

no swearing (out loud) at people is only OK here if the swearer and the swearee are of the appropriate nationality. :(

but nobody is following people around arresting them for typing damn on mumsnet.

[if I never come back and post again maybe I was wrong....]

Luna, absolutely, it has come a long way. Domesticgoddess, it is not a good idea to insult Islam or its symbols in any Islamic country.

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