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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

We are being watched !!

419 replies

domesticgodessintraining · 04/02/2012 18:19

A friend just called from the Middle East to say that the bored desperate housewives of Dubai are slagging us off ........

www.expatwoman.com/forum/messages.aspx?TopicID=171798

OP posts:
SaraBellumHertz · 10/02/2012 01:34

Sorry see you wrote UK national. I would assume so. I can access their website.

LineRunner · 10/02/2012 01:35

Personally I think I would make a critical judgement of any country - particularly my own - based on how the police behave when a complaint is made about sexual exploitation of children. Do they enforce the law fully, properly and to a high moral standard? Because you can bet your bottom dollar that they do where I live in the UK. And if they didn't, and I went to my MP, then it would be all over the press, without me having to face sub judice repercussions.

And the execution of minors in any country is just beyond all that is wrong.

LineRunner · 10/02/2012 01:39

Oh hi SaraB.

Wouldn't it be a very positive thing for as many UK/EU nationals as possible in the UAE to affiliate with a human rights group and push for positive change from within including enforcement of human rights law?

Just like people such as myself do with respect to other countries and our own brilliant but sometimes flawed UK?

SaraBellumHertz · 10/02/2012 01:41

Absolutely agree with your last statement.

Amnesty suggests that there have been no executions of minors in the UAE since 1990. For comparison there have been more in the USA than any other country.

LineRunner · 10/02/2012 01:44

Yes, the USA is a country deservedly under pressure from human rights groups.

Anyway, what do you think? Would MNetters in the UAE be able to make an impact?

SaraBellumHertz · 10/02/2012 02:12

I'm not sure how many MNers there are in the UAE but everything starts somewhere Smile

Having said that I am not sure how attractive a "big organisation" like Amnesty is to people here. My experience is that people like to be really hands on and possibly due to many expats not necessarily speaking Arabic and lacking a certain amount of legal and cultural understanding they feel their time and energy is better spent helping directly.

So organisations like helping hands and adoptacamp which go into camps and offer language classes and vocational courses as well as providing material items in a bid to improve the lives and prospects of migrant workers are tripping over themselves for volunteers as are the embassy safe houses and other organisations where individuals get a real sense of the work that they are doing is actually helping because they get to witness the results first hand.

These local organisations do work closely with the ministry of labour to ensure that the men and woman involved have access to legal relief where required (non payment of salary/withholding passports etc)

SaraBellumHertz · 10/02/2012 02:14

Also genuine question regarding executions of minors do you have any evidence that this is actually happening in the UAE, or just that the legal framework allows it as a possibility?

LineRunner · 10/02/2012 02:26

This from Human Rights Watch

The United Arab Emirates (UAE) also held juvenile offenders on death row in 2010, according to local media reports. In April, the UAE Supreme Court upheld death sentences for two Emiratis and one Bangladeshi for a murder committed when each of the defendants was 17. Later in April, two other men, an Emirati and a Bangladeshi, were sentenced to death in Sharjah for a murder committed when each was 17.

www.hrw.org/news/2010/10/09/iran-saudi-arabia-sudan-end-juvenile-death-penalty

SaraBellumHertz · 10/02/2012 02:46

Thanks.

I have read both those articles as they received death sentences but they have not been carried out. I can't find any further information.

GiserableMitt · 10/02/2012 03:56

For starters, public demonstrations are illegal in the UAE. When I said earlier that I wouldn't put the safety of my family in jeopardy that's what I meant (not personal safety - trouble exists anywhere you care to look for it but it's generally pretty safe). I feel ok here while we are toeing the line, but I'm not going to step over it.

These countries in this region are not the Democracies that most of us grew up in. If I shout too loud about what I think is wrong with this country I am likely to end up in trouble. That's just the way it is. I know that and I accept that.

There is an email that does the rounds now and again called "You know you've been in Dubai/the UAE/the Middle East too long when......"
Although funny, the defining statement for me was "...when you no longer ask why you're not allowed to do something."

LineRunner · 10/02/2012 17:37

Sara, I think that the international pressure on the UAE, and people like me posting on sites like this, have staved off the actual executions. That's one of Amnesty's effective tactics - draw the international community's attention to the plight of the prisoners.

But life on death row is itself an abuse of human rights. And yes, many MNetters have campaigned against this where it takes place in other countries too including the USA.

HillyWallaby · 10/02/2012 17:43

From the kitchen I could hear Sky News this evening and I thought I heard them say three men (they read out Muslim sounding names) had been sentenced for gay hate crime in Abu Dhabi. I can running out of the kitchen thinking of this thread and what a fortuitious breakthrough it all was, and then realised it wasn't in Abu Dhabi - it was in Derby! Grin

LineRunner · 10/02/2012 18:00

I think the best organisation for UK and EU nationals in the UAE to be aware of is Business Travellers Against Human Trafficking, which is an affiliate of Stop The Traffik. Business Travellers Against Human Trafficking were the group who campaigned with the Eurpean Parliament to get the UAE to start to take action on the fact that human trafficking has long been a major problem in the United Arab Emirates.

Unfortunately BTAHT say that despite improvements in the law recently, there are still severe human rights abuses, such as hundreds of women being trafficked to the Emirates and exploited in forced prostitution.

BTAHT ask foreign nationals to help them by reporting exploitation to them so that they can take action (reporting can be done via their website) or, if not safe to do so, upon returning home or via a third party. It asks foreign nationals to put quiet pressure on the local hotel community and hotel industry not to collude in exploitative practices or to turn a blind eye to slavery or enforced child labour or child abuse.

AmberLeaf · 10/02/2012 19:01

HillyWallaby Grin wouldnt that be a break through!

SaraBellumHertz · 11/02/2012 05:42

Linerunner I appreciate that being held on deathrow is an abuse of human rights in itself but I think it is worthy of note that the UAE has seemingly bowed to international pressure at least in relation to the execution of minors which I think we can all agree is abhorrent.

I did some work for Amnesty many years ago and additionally spent many years involved in their letter writing campaign. Despite popular misconceptions not everyone who resides in countries which participate in questionable practises are vacuous, slave owning, morons who deserve their husbands to cheat on them (that was a particularly nice insult BTW Hmm ).

I suspect some of us might actually be doing a lot more about the problems (in relation to ML, trafficking, day to day help for those less advantaged - this thread has now covered a multitude of issues ) than many of the outraged on this thread and it's naive to believe that a designer handbag (or whatever) and social responsibility are mutually exclusive.

But I get that we're any easy target because many western expats do live enormously privileged lives not just compared to those that live in this country but also in relation to those that live in our home countries.

hilly Grin

LineRunner · 11/02/2012 06:00

Morning, Sara.

Tbh, I think you (not you, personally, you understand) became an easy target because of lots of the stuff that some 'Ex-Pat Wives' have posted on the internet. That's how the whole thread came about.

I have an acquaintance who has a very privileged life. His worst habit? Boasting about it. Not only that, but but boasting about it to people indiscriminately including to those who have very little. And then he can't understand why some people won't put him on a pedestal. So what is that? Arrogance? Naivety? Stupidity? It fell to me recently to explain to him in words of one syllable why he's really fucking people off. His reponse? 'People are just jealous.' And so still he remains unpopular and bewildered.

HillyWallaby · 11/02/2012 06:55

But the fact is, people are just jealous. I'm not saying that is a 'wrong' emotional response - it's completely understandable, but if he were going on and on relentlessly about his dull hobby or the fact that he is very poor and how hard it is, or about his job, or his disability, or whatever his particular obsession of choice might be, people would still find it boring and irritating and they might still dislike him for it, but they wouldn't get so fucking angry and bitter!

I find it uncomfortable and awkward when casual friends or aquaintances go on and on about what they don't have and how tough things are for them, to me, knowing am pretty well off in comparison. It's difficult to know what my response is supposed to be, or how I can contribute helpfully to the conversation without them immediately batting it back with 'oh, you're alright Jack, what would you know?'

I don't know whether they are trying to make me feel guilty, or spoilt or greedy, but it sometimes feels like it.This is why people often end up socialising with people from the same or similar socio-economic group as their won. Poor(er) people thing rich(er) people snub them for being 'not good enough' but in reality it's much, much more complicated than that - it's about not needing to tread on eggshells your whole life.

Relatively affluent people are entitled to talk about their life and what goes on in it without the assumption always being that everything they say is designed to make someone else feel inferior for crying out loud! Especially as IME, half the time we are responding honestly to direct nosiness questions rather than forcing the information about how bloody fantastic we are onto a reluctant audience.

When I was in the UK I had to listen to so many 'jokey' Hmm jibes over the years from people who thought they were entitled to belittle tease us because we seemed 'rich' in comparison to them. From friends we have known for twenty years, to tradesmen who came into my house and felt they could start taking a snidey pop at me in the name of humour Hmm because I had a big house in a nice area, a nice car, a DH with a very good job and I didn't work but had a cleaner. So???

Imagine how that would work in reverse.....oh, but hang on. It doesn't. Because it's not acceptable among most people with an ounce of decency to keep pointing out someone's financial shortcomings.

I have a 'friend' here on my compound in Qatar who is on a tight budget and if we have been shopping for anything I dread getting it out of the car because I am terrified she will come out of her house and start asking questions. She is always making little PA digs about how much better off than them we are, and I hate it, but I don't spew bile at her for it - I just end up trying to avoid her!

Anyway - massive hijack, but loosely relevant to the Jumeirah Jane bashing, and just wanted to get it off my chest.

HillyWallaby · 11/02/2012 06:56

god, sorry that was a really long rant. Blush

LineRunner · 11/02/2012 07:35

Oh sure, Hilly, my acquaintance - let's call him Harry - is entitled to talk about his life and to say whatever he wants. What he can't do though is dictate other people's responses to this.

A wise man who wants something from people would be better served exercising a bit of tact and discretion.

More to the point, Harry actually does wants something from these people, and he has been told no. They have said no because they feel no admiration for him and find his judgement lacking.

Doesn't that make him a bit foolish?

Anyway we are probably going massively off-piste and I'm getting all parable-y.

SaraBellumHertz · 11/02/2012 09:13

linerunner afternoon here Grin

Well the one thing we all know as members of MN there is not accounting for the rubbish that is spouted on the Internet.

I often wonder what sort of perspective one would get of the UK if their knowledge was based on the posts of a few from select boards on MN Grin

HillyWallaby · 11/02/2012 09:15

No, I agree LR, and it sounds as though he is a bit of an arrogant twat, and little bit of tact and discretion would not go amiss.

bijou3 · 11/02/2012 12:03

Hilly and Sara, I can?t work out if you are serious or joking?

Most expats have their accommodation, schooling, healthcare and utility bills paid by the company, most expats hire their cars whilst living in the UAE, so effectively you have the use of x, y and z whilst you live in the UAE, you don?t actually own anything so effectively it is not yours.

You are living in the UAE on a visa so if your contract is terminated you have 30 days to find another job or leave the UAE.

I find it hard to believe that people are jealous of that type of set up.

GiserableMitt · 11/02/2012 12:32

Most expats have their accommodation, schooling, healthcare and utility bills paid by the company,

A few years ago, maybe. Nowadays, packages with all that paid for are few and far between.

HillyWallaby · 11/02/2012 13:59

I'm not talking about the expat lifestyle specifically bijou I'm just talking about people in general.