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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

because this is it I am never talking to my parents again-ever.

161 replies

moiandkermee · 02/02/2012 19:58

I have never posted before but this...
My parents have come to visit us for the week.. I am from a fundamental
christian family.
We have 2 young DCs at 3 and 1.
My parents really don't like the fact that I left the faith, that we didn't get married in church and that we are raising the DCs without a faith.
But they have tolerated it to continue to have a relationship with me, DH and will-be 3 DCs.
DH was at work today so it was the 5 of us, they took the 2 DCs out this morning, came back, we played and chatted and had an all around nice time.
Late afternoon I came into our kitchen to find my parents holding the DD and DS partway though baptising them.

I grabbed DCs, shouted at my parents to get put, caused both DCs to start crying. DH came in a few minutes later finding me crying at the kitchen table hugging DD and DS looking at me puzzled saying 'mammy have you got a baddy?' and my parents upstairs packing complaining about where they are going to go till their train on Monday.
I told them that I never want to speak or see them again and then basically threw them out.

I am fuming. How on God's earth could my parents do something like that?
DH thinks that when I calm down that I should contact them because they are my parents.
But they tried to baptise my children in my kitchen (actually did DS but I am trying to forget that)! I am not over-reacting, am I?

OP posts:
cheekyseamonkey · 02/02/2012 21:32

I'd be furious, actually fuming! But in terms of any effect on the children, as it's all utter bollocks it doesn't matter in the real world!

As for cutting them off, not sure. I'd feel it right now, might fade over time. Certainly would be difficult.

rhondajean · 02/02/2012 21:41

OP you are not being unreasonable.

I too was raised in a fundamentalist Christian faith, not the same as they only practice baptism with consent so older children and adults, not infants. I too chose to leave - it bordered on a cult to be honest.

I completely understand how you are feeling and why. And it's not a harmless thing, i don't feel like I have the energy to go into it much at the moment, due to things that are going on with my own parents, but I do totally understand. And I would have done the same.

MidsomerM · 02/02/2012 21:46

I would be angry and upset, I would want them to leave, BUT I wouldn't remove them from my life for ever. I think you need to calm down, maybe write them a letter explaining how upset you are, and setting down some ground rules. If they want to know their grandchildren, they need to accept your lack of faith and not try to force it upon your children. You are adults and you need to try and discuss this calmly and rationally. I think it would be terribly wrong to lose contact with them and deprive your children of their grandparents, when they (your children) have done nothing at all.

joanofarchitrave · 02/02/2012 21:47

Baptising by proxy??

Sorry but [snort].

Xmasbaby11 · 02/02/2012 21:48

I wouldn't consider them baptised.

It may be extreme to cut them off, but visits would have to be supervised from now on.

Hullygully · 02/02/2012 21:50

Goodness. I am an atheist and was raised an atheist, so probably care much less about this sort of mad nonsense, but I can see that from your parents' POV, if they are really really believers, they must be terrified your dcs souls might be in danger and they wouldn't be able to help themselves. How could they not do it, if they genuinely thought the alternative was an alternative of hellfire for their beloved grandchildren...?

What a nightmare.

I wouldn't never speak to them again, just let it all calm down and then explain that no matter what they think, they are never to do anything like it again. Worth a go.

I do believe they were acting out of love (just a weirdy love for a non-believer)

Hullygully · 02/02/2012 21:51

the second alternative = eternity

squeakytoy · 02/02/2012 21:54

"How on God's earth could my parents do something like that?"

Odd expression for someone who has left the church and decided that its all a load of bollocks... Confused

OzzieLou · 02/02/2012 21:58

YANBU - there's no excuse for your parents' behaviour.

But - I believe (and am happy to be contradicted) that it is not unforgiveable, as long as they agree in future to respect your decisions on how to bring up your children.

It would be very sad for you to lose contact with your parents, and for your children to lose contact with their grandparents. I've seen it happen and it's more than often something that people end up regretting.

Hope you can find a way to work it out.

troisgarcons · 02/02/2012 22:00

I would just assume they were barking mad and realise it meant nothing in reality.

To put it in context, if I came rond and decided to induct your children into the faith of the Giant Honey Monster - you would indeed decide I was quite possibly not of this planet and brush it off. But because you probably still believe in God this has upset you because you have that feeling in the back of your mind that by not baptising you have condemned to life of eternal hell.

But - if it makes you feel better, I have faith, DH doesnt, I've never taken the children to worship (other than school events)...I have one who is quite highly religious, and two who think it's all a fairy story. My stance is "when you can make up your own mind we'll discuss it".

I do think you over reacted, if only that your parents thought they were doing something good. Misjudged perhaps. But intrinsically they were looking after your childrens spiritual well being.

Tryharder · 02/02/2012 22:01

I feel sorry for your parents and agree with HullyGully. They obviously felt very desperate to try and baptise your DCs on the sly. If you don't believe in God, then what does it matter if they (presumably) put a bit of water on the DCs heads and said a prayer. It wasn't as they tried to circumcise them in your absence surely?

My DH is a Muslim and I don't follow any particular faith neither do the kids. But I have had members of DH's family pray over them numerous times.

I think you are being massively unreasonable and need to calm down.

IvanaHumpalot · 02/02/2012 22:01

I would be more concerned with any future conversations your parents have with your children. Overnight visits, holidays etc... I have a b.a.c. friend. Some of the stuff her and her children come out with makes me laugh and cry. Song lyrics - I think the act is trashy and the lyrics nonsense. She sees devil worship. Whole tracts of topics are off limits - Darwin/evolution, IVF, the list goes on.
"mammy have you got a baddy" this is what I would question.

cruelladepoppins · 02/02/2012 22:06

moi YANBU it was extremely disrespectful of them towards you.

But you can still take the snitty high ground and just think quietly to yourself "what a load of mumbo jumbo" . I'm assuming you don't believe that baptism affects your children in any meaningful way, after all? And if they've "baptised" them once they won't be needing to do it again ...!

Also assuming there's nothing worse in the tenets of that particular religion. [exorcism etc!] - I mean nothing that would affect the physical safety or mental health of your DCs.

Maybe your DH can be a go-between when you feel ready.

Abirdinthehand · 02/02/2012 22:14

what's b.a.c.?

And yes, you do need to lay down some ground rules with them for the future. Stuff like what will they tell your kids about sin, hell, sex before marriage, homosexuality, people of other faiths, evolution, women's rights, corperal punishment, the list goes on. My approach would be asking them not to discuss faith for the moment, but when the children are older suggesting they can speak about it as long as they make it clear it is what THEY believe, and other people think differently.

I guess on some of those issues you might not care if your DPs tell your children something different to what you believe, but some might mean a lot to you. And while your DCs are little now, these things do come up in conversation, and as they get older it will become more of an issue.

I already somtimes have issues with some people in my family because I am not teaching my kids literal 7 day creationism. They are 2 and 4!!

GypsyMoth · 02/02/2012 22:17

Really, this WAS tonight's Simpsons episode! How er,odd!?

troisgarcons · 02/02/2012 22:19

Well, parents, tend to pass on (or try to) their own beliefs - thats the way of the world.

Even if you try to be PC and do the "make up your own mind" stance, they will pick up on your intrinsic beliefs.

LanceCorporalBoiledEgg · 02/02/2012 22:25

If you're really are a non-believer then why do you believe your parents "baptised" them?

They put some water on their heads and said some words - it's a totally harmless act. And as you don't believe in god or baptism it's totally meaningless.

Baptism only comes from the belief in the action not the action itself - if this makes sense.

So it wouldn't bother me.

startail · 02/02/2012 22:29

YANBU
I would be absolutely furious and very very upset.

My reaction would very probably have been much the same, but with the added complication that I have a Christian
DH who'd get caught in the cross fire.

DH and I agreed to disagree about the existence of God on our second date, 9years BC.

The DDs will have to make up their own minds, they go to a CofE school and to church occasionally and mum tells them it's mumbo-jumbo frequently.

What to believe is their choice to make as consenting adults, to sneakily baptise them interfere with that choice in a deep and fundamental way.
It would take a long time to forgive the OP's parents,

booboobeedoo · 02/02/2012 22:46

I read a similar thread last year...here

doinmummy · 02/02/2012 22:47

I'd be furious, mainly because it seems they were being a bit sneaky about it and knew OP wouldn't be happy, otherwise they'd have mentioned what they were going to do.

Original poster
moiandkermee · 02/02/2012 22:54

Thanks- maybe you all make a good point about letting it settle and then seeing how I feel. But at the moment...I don't see anyway I could forgive them.

I'm sorry about your parents rhonajean and I know what you mean.

Lets call it residue (about the God's earth bit)

I don't understand Ivana About what DS said?

OP posts:
Greythorne · 02/02/2012 22:59

Moland
Look, it is annoying, disrespectful and sneaky.

BUT it is meaningless because religious ceremonies nly have meaning if you believe and you don't! It's just hocus pocus!

At least it was a relatively benign "ceremony" (dunking the child's head under water).

Let's be grateul they are not part of a religion where circumcision is required!

I would let them stew, but forget about it.

sayithowitis · 02/02/2012 23:42

The parents were totally out of order here. They have completely disregarded and disrespected choices made by the OP and her DH on behalf of their own children, in order to fulfill their own wishes and beliefs. It doesn't matter whether it is a 'meaningless few drops of water', the fact is, that to the GPs, it has a significant meaning and indicates that they feel that their beliefs are more important than those of the children's parents. Presumably, there were also words spoken, which the 3 year old would have heard and may now be wondering about. It was not the place of the GPs to do that. It was, and is, the right of the child's parents to decide when they choose to expose their children to religion - whether that be as babies/toddlers, or when the children go to school and are required to take part in the daily worship.

Whether I would cut all contact forever, I don't know. Forever is a long time. But I would certainly be questioning my own relationship with parents who expected me to respect their beliefs, to the point where they would so completely and dishonestly, disrespect mine and the decisions we, as parents, had made for our DCs. And, my DCs would never, ever, be alone with their GPs again until they were old enough to make their own decisions about religion.

Happyasapiginshite · 03/02/2012 00:21

I haven't read all the replies so forgive me if I repeat what others have said.
YANBU to have reacted the way you did. Your parents, I'm sure, are well aware of your wishes to raise your children with no religion and absolutely should not have gone behind your back.

But...I don't know what it's like in your parents' faith but I know that if I hadn't had my children baptised (we're Catholic, very very lapsed) then the older people in my family would have been genuinely worried that they would not go to heaven and it would have caused them huge anxiety. I'm not saying your parents were right to be so sneaky, but I think you have to look at their motives for doing it. I'm sure they didn't mean for you to find out that it was done at all but maybe it gave them peace of mind to feel your children were baptised and if you hadn't found out about it, it wouldn't have hurt anyone.

Someone can put a spell on me, it doesn't mean I believe it will have any effect. Likewise someone baptising your children only has significance if it means something to you, that you want to raise your children in the religion. Otherwise it's just water and words.

Life is short. Forgive them.

pranma · 03/02/2012 00:34

I understand that you are angry but what actual harm has been done. They have acted out of faith and love. They shouldn't have done it but you are over reacting. Fwiw anyone can baptise a child and I am sure that many grandparents have done it. Don't disown loving parents you can forgive them.