to think 40k isn't *that* high a salary?

[HexagonalQueenOfTheSummer]

Someone I know is constantly boasting that their DH earns 40k per year. Every time I meet up with her (she is in a group of friends), she will drop it into the conversation at every available opportunity. If someone admires something she's wearing she will say something like "well it was from X shop but I can afford stuff like that as DH earns 40k a year". It's difficult to explain how she does it, but somehow she manages to mention it several times each time I've seen her, not just to me but to everyone.

Now I know 40k is a decent wage compared to some, but its not that good really is it? Certainly not a wage to boast and brag about. By the time they've paid their rent (it's 1k per month, she's told us all that several hundred times too), bills and other things I wouldn't think they're left with a huge amount.

I really couldn't give a monkeys what anyone else earns but I'm just surprised that she seems to think its so unusual and so worth bragging about.

Boasting's clearly not good, especially when it's not about something that's particularly outstanding amongst your peer group.

But this British thing about people not saying how much they earn is at least partly responsible for the pay gap between men and women. In many companies, women just don't find out whether they are paid less than male peers. Even if salaries are advertised, the actual amount is negotiated. If we were more like some European nations where it's all open and above board, there might be much faster progress towards equal pay. It wouldn't have taken dinner ladies 30 years to find out councils were routinely paying men more for equivalent jobs, for instance.

It's not that much in London TBH. But if they are only paying 1K per month for their housing, then I guess they are not in the Smoke, unless they are living in a 2 bed flat.

Income actually bears very little relationship to standard of living or "lifestyle" for that matter, depending on your circumstances - there are far too many variables involved to make a blanket judgement based purely on a salary. We live in a huge villa in a beautiful World Heritage city, but it's my mum's house. We are her carers (she is v. old and frail.) We haven't got a pot to piss in penny of our own ATM. DH is (struggling) self-employed, we are eligible for full tax-credits and I'm a full-time student. But we have a far nicer "lifestyle" now and DS goes to a far far better (state) school than when we lived in posh leafy-suburb North London with an income of £70K+ per year.

It is a lot in London, LapsedPacifist. I have a lot less than that to live on.

A 1K a month 2 bedroom flat in London? You're having a laugh, right?

yellow i find it strange too.

Well if the average household income is £35K then £40K isn't that big a deal with a single earner surely?

We have a joint income of £42K in London and we can't afford children. A 2-bed flat is EASILY £1K in rent. In fact show me where!

Yes, exactly, where is this £1000 flat with 2 bedrooms. That was my point, tardis.

We live in E1, can't find a 1 bed for less than £1000.

I lived in 2-bed flats in various parts of Finchley between 2001 and 2008 - they were aALL private rentals around £850-900 per month. I assume (according to all the news about market rent increases in London) that 1K would be about average for the area nowadays - check Rightmove if you think I'm wrong. I've certainly never seen a 3bed house for example at that price.

I was a single parent for the first 2 of those year as well, but always managed to borrow money for deposits and get mates to fake references etc. Sorry, but that's what you have to do sometimes. I never failed to pay the rent on time either, even when I was (occasionally) relying totally on housing benefit, so no-one was ever hurt or ripped off.

DH and I are late 40s/early 50s, so I'm comparing household incomes for dual-income (with older kids) middle-aged couples like ourselves. The OP is I think referring to total income for families with kids. Most of my single childless 40-something London mates are earning 35k+.

To put it in perspective the max mortgage we could get is £115K. So the banks consider it a pitance

However, £40k oop north and we could get a little two up two down in a commuter town. It's all relative.

E1???!

That is HOXTON FFS! How trendy is that??

It's a bit like claiming you can't get a flat in Kinghtsbirdge daahling fo less than £500 per week

I lived in N3/N12 for 25 years up until 2009. And, I repeat, I NEVER paid less more than £866 per month for a 2 bed flat.

Try looking beyond the Norf Cirkyoolar.

Knightsbridge.

Oh do piss off, I live nowhere near Hoxton. I live in dull old Stepney.

Tis still expensive though. Look, I worked in the City for years and I know how much rental accommodation costs in that part of London. It is a completely different market to the outer suburbs - of course there are lots of rough bits in East London, but private rents are still spectacularly high in your area. Like I said, just look at Rightmove if you don't believe me.

I'm not really sure what your point is. Yes there are cheaper bits of London but generally so far out as to make them practically impossible because you end up spending as much on travel as you do on renting somewhere closer.

Well, that isn't my experience TBH. I commuted from Zone 4 to the City or the West End for my first 10 years in London before DS was born, and always found it far more cost effective to commute in than live in central London. I was earning pretty rubbish money for most of that time too, but I was single and childless, and living in shared flats. After DS was born I always found crap mummy-jobs local part-time work and managed to avoid commuting costs, but fortunately for most of that time I wasn't the main wage-earner.

tardisjumper - you can only get a mortgage for 115k on 42k? We were offered more than that on a combined income of 20k in 2006. Thats how we got our place down South. My friend at work is only on 29k joint incoe with her bf and they have just got a mortgage on 135k 2 weeks ago. Can you not go through the estate agent? They always give people mortgages easily ime.

This woman sounds really insecure. Whether she thinks 40k is a 'huge' salary or not, the point is, it's not even her achievement. Her husband is earning it. I would hazard a guess that if she is so impressed by 40k, her earning power is considerably less, and maybe she has issues and feels the need to live off her husbands achievements.

It reminds me of threads about mothers who boast about their childrens academic prowess. Usually people like this are insecure about their own life. Frankly, if you are busy living a full r
Life, creating your own achievements to be proud of, it doesn't even cross your mind to start spouting about the rest of your family

@molly we only have a deposit of £10k. I thought that was a lot until going to mortgage broker. Some were offerign £130K but the interest rate was crap. We would be first time buyers. I feel like pointout out these figures to anyone on the 'why won't people buy my house' threads.

thetasigmamum you have described me as bitter and said that I think high earners only get there through dumb luck. You have mis-read my posts.

You also state that you yourself lived on a council house estate and that I am insulting those who come from that background. I have told you time and again not to presume anything about my background. I won't tell you mine because I should be allowed opinions without having to state where I am from in order to justify them.

There are many many people who have worked hard all their lives and are still on a low income. Would you say that they must not have worked hard enough because of this? That is why I say that much of it is also down to luck. Hard work is NOT enough. You can get up at 6am and work a full day in a factory doing shifts and go to bed every single night exhausted and still be on minimum wage. People who are from working class backgrounds have less chance to succeed and that is backed up by every statistic going. You can give me exceptional examples all you like and I agree that there are exceptions to every rule, but the sad fact is that you are more likely to succeed if you are from a middle class background. You are more likely to go to University.

This is why I say that luck comes into it. Because I am fed up of some high earners (and there have always been some on Mumsnet who say this) that if we worked hard enough we too would be able to send our kids to private schools and if we worked hard enough we too would have success at our fingertips. That is an insult to all those people who have worked damned hard all their lives and NOT found success. And an insult to people like Hunty who has had more than her fair share of bad luck that has taken that success away from her.

So yes, luck comes into it and if that makes me bitter and insulting then so be it.

tardis Have you looked into the govt first buy scheme?

Have you tried London and Country brokers?

We got a mortage of £150k before xmas and my dh earns just oever £45k.

(We had £18k deposit btw)

Tardis, you couldn't get a little 2up 2down in a decent area for £40k up North. Not unless you were prepared to live on a rough estate in Salford or on the outskirts of a mining village miles from any town or potential work in North Wales.

Well said rhubarb !!!

Doesn't Tardis mean you could get a little 2 up 2 down in the north on £40k, not for£40k (ie for £115k on the mortgage the bank is prepared to give her)? Apologies, Tardis, if I'm putting words into your mouth!

For once I do agree with you Rhubarb! It is easier for people from educated and wealthy backgrounds to succeed, but of course, it does take hard work on top of luck. In my opinion (and having seen DH do this), to become a very high earner from a very "difficult" and underprivilaged background (for the UK) takes monumental effort and an stupendous and unexpected inner confidence that some people (including me, frankly) just aren't born with. Plus a bit of luck (eg DH grew up in an area with grammar schools, without which things would have been different). Of course, someone earning a low wage can and does work every bit as hard as someone earning a high wage. My best friend is a nurse. She does not earn much. She works MUCH harder than me!

But I have to say that those posters claiming that anyone with a good degree (i.e. a first) from a, say, top 10 uni has a starting salary of at least £40K are misguided. Yes if you go into law, accountancy (sometimes - not those who start in say audit for one of the big firms though) or the city (in a grad recruitment job, like say HSBC international managers). But that is not everyone! I got a first from a top 5 uni, as did a lot of friends. Most do not earn that now. Many became teachers, some went into media or journalism, one became a nurse (bit of a shock!)... they do not earn that and manage fine in London (albeit, to be honest, none have children yet as we had DD young).

I find it faintly ridiculous, as I have said above, when people claim poverty on very good salaries. I don't know if anyone has particularly done that here but, for instance, I have a close colleague who is a partner where I work. I don't know exactly what he earns but the MINIMUM for slaraied partners is £300K+, up £1 million plus for equity. he hand on heart claims that money is tight, times are had etc etc... I smile and nod.... I think its an example of it being VERY easy to just spend what you earn, or even a little more than you earn. So yeah, if you are looking to buy even a teeny, tiny 1 or 2 bed flat in some parts of (not even that central) London, you will spend £500K minimum. I am afraid my heart bleeds not. live out, in a much less fashionable area, or [sock horror] leave london so you can afford the lifestyle you want (this is what we've done). This is not directed at anyone in particular, but I do think people in general can be terribly unimaginative and, frankly, moany, when it comes to lifestyles. if you don't like it, change. Taking a massive salary cut is not that big a deal if your lifestyle morfs into what you want it to be!

Ooooh I seeeee, that would make more sense.

This report on the Living Wage in supermarkets makes sobering reading if anyone cares enough. Personally I think it's something that we should all take the time to read. We need these grass root workers, they are the ones who keep the country going yet they are paid a pittance with loo breaks timed and smoking breaks monitored with cameras. When researchers for the report tried to interview staff they were threatened and employees were also threatened with disciplinary action if they spoke to them. But some did take the risk and the findings in the report are shocking. If everyone who took the time to post on this thread added their support to the Fair Pay Network it would make a HUGE difference.