to think 40k isn't *that* high a salary?

[HexagonalQueenOfTheSummer]

Someone I know is constantly boasting that their DH earns 40k per year. Every time I meet up with her (she is in a group of friends), she will drop it into the conversation at every available opportunity. If someone admires something she's wearing she will say something like "well it was from X shop but I can afford stuff like that as DH earns 40k a year". It's difficult to explain how she does it, but somehow she manages to mention it several times each time I've seen her, not just to me but to everyone.

Now I know 40k is a decent wage compared to some, but its not that good really is it? Certainly not a wage to boast and brag about. By the time they've paid their rent (it's 1k per month, she's told us all that several hundred times too), bills and other things I wouldn't think they're left with a huge amount.

I really couldn't give a monkeys what anyone else earns but I'm just surprised that she seems to think its so unusual and so worth bragging about.

I don't understand why anyone is interested in what their friends earn. I know people on huge salaries who are up to their eyes in debt - and I know people on very low salaries who have no debts - and lots of different types in between.
Our income is nowhere near 40k,..or even 30k but I have no debts and I manage to save money every month. If we had 40k a year salary we would be loaded.
I am never impressed by anyone's salary nor am I critical of anyone earning a very low salary.

"If you don't mind answering (obviously!), if your household income is significantly lower than £40k, how much are your mortgage/rent plus travel costs? Thanks."

Rent: £300 per month - 3 bed house
Travel: £120 per month (fuel)

Our household income is £29k

TheRhubarb I have made no assumptions about your background but you have told us plenty in this thread. It is you who is trying to deny others their own experience. I am perfectly happy to believe that you are the most unlucky person who ever lived. Indeed it must be very unlucky to be so very bitter and negative. You however refuse to believe that anyone who is a high earner got there through hard work and not through being jammy.

As I said. This is hugely insulting. And yet you complain about other people, who live in different parts of the country, telling you their lived experience that £40k isn't a huge sum on which to bring up a family where they live, insulting you.

It's a mote/plank situation and that's why I am taking you to task. Otherwise I wouldn't bother because sadly there is clearly no telling you that the entire world isn't conspiring against you.

As stated in my post...I live in London

Mortgage and insurance costs £1500pm
Combined travel for me and DH £300pm (DH gets yearly season ticket loan)
Childcare for 2 days per weeK £500pm
Council Tax around £150-180
plus other utilities, gas, electricity, phone, broadband, TV, water i'd say about another £250pm
Do you see we pay nearly £3000 per month before we even get around to buying food

Rhubarb - if your mortgage is £450/month, that goes a long way towards explaining why you think £40k is a good household income. Ours is well over 3 times that, and that's on a tiny 2-bed terrace in a rough part of London. As I said, add on travel (average annual season ticket is about £2000, double for both partners commuting) and childcare (about £500/month for nursery for one child) and £40k really wouldn't go far.

bakingaddict Ultilities only £250pm? Can I come and live with you???? Our water alone costs £200 pm. :( But hey. In 2014 we are going to get a £50 rebate from the government on our water bills. Which will make everything just fine.

What amazes me on these threads is the people saying that earning a big salary is not down to luck.

You can convince yourself all you like that your hard work has earnt you your bunts, but it's just not true.

baking blimey that's a lot of money to spend out - easy to see how you'd struggle.

Makes £40k seem very little!

In my neck of the woods it would be a lot though.

PushyDad, but you are not struggling are you?
If you earned £15k and had no money at the end of each month to pay for restaurants or cinema treats and had to take your holidays with friends instead of abroad in the sun, then your friend told you how he couldn't imagine living on £40k because it's just not a very good wage, how would you react then?

This is not about the hierarchy of people, but the attitude that everyone thinks that £40k is a piffling amount and surely there is no-one who thinks that it's a liveable wage. Esp when that attitude exists on a parenting forum which has recently had huge debates about benefits cuts and heard accounts from parents who are having to make daily essential sacrifices just to keep their heads above water.

The thread title said it all really. If you had been on Mumsnet during the last few weeks you could not have failed to notice the stories of dire poverty, of peoples individual circumstances that were simply shocking and something that should keep David Cameron awake at night. I cannot imagine for one minute what it must be like living hand to mouth, especially when you are a carer and spend most of your day exhausted, working without a break. To then come on and publicly state that £40k is not a good wage - in the thread title for all to see, is insensitive.

That's £50 in total. Not £50 per month. In 2013.

ephiny that has been my point in this thread. Location depends how far your money goes and changing your perspective on what is a large income as opposed to a small one.

But Ephiny, plenty of people in London earn far less than that.

yellowraincoat Yes it bloody well is. If I was lucky I'd be earning a lot more, actually. See also 'if I was a man'. And 'if I didn't have a (sort of) disability'.

I don't know about anyone else here but I'm in the sort of job where credentials are important. And so is being a man. Hence I don't earn as much as I would if I was a man. But I earn what I do, despite being a woman, because of my credentials. which were obtained through brain melting hard work back in the day (and ongoing) not luck.

Actually working that out properly - nursery for one child would be more like £900/week (using this calculator) if we needed full-time, which we would.

sorry, per month not week! It's not quite that bad!

Average salary depends a vast amount on where you live. My DH is a police officer with 12 years' service - hardly an amazing job - yet he earns about £40k with overtime etc. SIL is a midwife of 7 years' experience - she earns nearly £36k. My best friend's husband is a history teacher - he earns £38k. These are not earth shattering jobs, just ordinary jobs. Yes I know that a lot of people earn very low salaries but nurses, policemen and teachers aren't exactly stratospheric jobs yet 3 people very close to me all earn in the vicinity of £40k.

I wouldn't think that it was such an incredible thing to keep banging on about it all the time. Unless, of course, you live in a mining town/somewhere similar where there is grinding poverty and to earn £40k would be something really incredible.

But bakingaddict... I am genuinely curious! How can you not have a lot of disposable income on (I guess from your post) £80K, in London.

As I said, I earn just shy of £65K and am the sole earner. we live in London, albeit not really, really central. DH is a SAHD. After pension and my travel card etc coming out of my pay, we get a total of £3,000ish per month

Mortgage is £750 pm
Bills about the same again
Food up to £100 per week (expensive, I know), sometimes less
No childcare costs as DH is at home
I would guess about £40 per week on petrol for DH
.... so obviously, we have quite a bit of spare cash every month which we can either save or spend.... normally about £1,000 spare or £600 in a bad month.

When we move and I will earn £40K, mortgage will be about the same but we are hoping bills will be less. We plan to spend less on food too. We should have some spare which, together with childcare vouchers, should pay for private school until I am earning more.

Hence my honest confusion!!!!

Ephiny, our house is an ex-council house, a repo.
It's not in a great area and has a lot wrong with it but it's all we could afford.

Our mortgage is very low and I'm very grateful for that. We also manage in other ways, for instance we are not in any debt (apart from the mortgage) as we don't buy what we cannot afford. We specialise in finding second hand bargains

I do feel lucky that we own our house and don't have debts. I also think that we have more than enough really for our needs.

Gah.... I am soooo slow - sorry baking!!!

Everything in life is down to luck. For a start, we're lucky simply to be living in a country where people have the chance to have a career rather than picking up litter to sell on.

Yes lots of people in London earn less, but they may not have a mortgage, may receive benefits or working/child tax credits, may not have student loans to pay off, might not need to commute for work, might not need to pay for nursery or a nanny because one partner is at home or they have family to help out, and they might be getting into debt or at least not saving much.

I'm certainly not claiming to speak for everyone in London - it's a big place and everyone's circumstances are different! Just saying that for us personally and our lifestyle, 40k would not seem like a large household income.

Sorry thetasigmamum, that's just a guess....most of the direct debits for utilities go from DH bank account, so could be a lot more. I tend to pay for childcare, food and contribute to mortgage. Although, long story, I do know our water bill for the whole year was just under £700 due to cock up with Thames water which they kindly billed us for just before Xmas

Thanks DoesNotGiveAFig, just wanted to give another angle to the debate

yellowraincoat - exactly the point I was trying to make earlier.

"Rent: £300 per month - 3 bed house "

Where do you live ? £300 a month wouldn't rent a bedsit where we live !

I know plenty of people for whom £40K would be a big amount. I can think of some careers in particular (eg I know quite a few writers) where to get to the point of being on the 40% tax threshold(ish) would be a massive significant achievement. Some of them are at that, actually and yes they were incredibly chuffed when it happened. Because it demonstrated that despite what everyone said they made the right choice and even though they knew it was the right choice for them when they made it, financially it hasn't always looked like a sensible move, being a full-time writer. Actually, practically anyone self employed is probably going to be pretty happy breaking 40K when it happens.

That doesn't change What Things Cost though. And if you live in an area where What Things Cost is high (or if you have, for example, sick elderly relatives (or inlaws) to support as well as your nuclear family) then 40K might not give a very lavish life.