To punish DD every time she wets herself.

[sleepdeprivedby2]

DD is five years old and still wets herself multiple times a day, in the last 6 months she has been dry for 2 days!

I am at my wits end as we have tried absolutely everything to help her, star/reward charts, lots of praise for going to the toilet etc etc, you name it over the last 2 years we have tried it. The only thing we haven't tried is a consequence for being wet!

We are currently waiting for a paediatric referral but this has been cancelled once, so I am not holding out much hope.

The main crux of the problem is that she just doesn't care about being wet, going to the toilet is an inconvenience which she puts off and off. She will wet her pants and still not go to the toilet!

Normally I just ignore it as much as possible and then send her to get herself changed but I am completely fed up of her whole attitude towards it and her determination not to help herself.

We have bought her a watch which vibrates during the school day (every 1.5 hours) to remind her to go, but she just ignores it, puts it in her bag or leaves it at home! Every day when I pick her up she has had at least one change of clothes and is usually wet again and she smells really bad!

Tonight at bath time, she got in the bath (with her 2 year old brother) and stood and wee'd in the bath rather than go to the toilet less than a meter away. I took her out the bath, put her on the toilet and told her to sit there whilst I refilled the bath at which point she started screaming at me so I calmly picked her up and put her in bedroom and shut the door.
Two minutes later she comes in the bathroom "mummy it was a bad idea to put me my room because now there is poo on the floor".
At which point I explained that her behaviour was completely unacceptable, told her to go to the toilet, walked out the bathroom, cleaned the carpet and went to play with her brother.

I know everyone says to ignore the bad behaviour and praise the good but as you can see it's just not working!! There are no real consequences to her wetting herself, we send her to get changed and she plays in her room still in her wet clothes or puts one of her princess dresses on.

So do we give her a consequence every time she wets to make her realise that this is not acceptable or do we continue to ignore through gritted teeth and hope she is dry before her tenth birthday.

Thanks for reading

Janelikesjam is annoying me. A lot.

My DC managed to go all day at lego land once without an accident and like the OP we took that to mean it was possible for DC to be dry if the motivation was there. Unfortuanately in our case this did not mean there was not an illness it just misled everyone further. Will never now know if it was coincidence or just a supreme effort that could not be maintained every day.

Whether or not the actual wetting is a medical issue, the not getting changed when she has been told to is definitely a behavioural thing. So perhaps you could try punishing her in some small way (taking away favourite toy for the day, time out, whatever) if you find that she has wet and not told anyone/got changed, or rewarding her if she does wet but tells someone/gets changed? Although with that last one you would also have to also reward her for staying dry, because otherwise she might just wet purposefully to be able to tell you and get rewarded.

You could start it with say, if you go the whole morning and always tell someone if you've get/get yourself changed (whichever is more appropriate for home/school etc) then you get X, and same for afternoons, and then change it to the whole day and so on. Then what happens might actually give you a clue as to whether it's behavioural or not (the wetting) - as in, if she keeps wetting but tells you immediately then it's probably medical but if she stays dry then it's probably behavioural. Though obviously, it's not as black and white as that.

I have not read the whole thread, so somebody else may already has suggested this.

It must be extremely frustrating for you. From what you describe it seems a mixture of not caring and plain laziness. However, she is only five, so a referral is crucial, please chase it and don't let them fob you off.

In the meantime, can you start a star chart for each time she goes to the toilet (ideally coordinate this with school, so they tell you whether she has been or not). If she has been to the toilet successfully say 5 times (to keep it manageable from her perspective) a small reward, maybe favourite magazine whatever. If it works you can build it up, so 8 times then 10 times etc.

Also, could you (and school) keep a diary when she wets herself (time of day, what was she doing, happy/stressed, etc.).

I hope you find a solution soon.

This thread is actually making me think the opposite to the OP - I thought it wasn't alarming at all that DD is still wetting in the day and wears a pull up at night. Maybe slightly behind the average, but not so much that it could be an actual sign of anything bigger. She is seeing the school nurse next month about it, but again I thought that about a third of the class would be in the position, and that most would still be in pull ups.

It is just so far beyond DD's abilities, and she is usually ahead in stuff, so I thought it was an area where she was maybe very slightly behind the average.

She loves the digestive system (because it has poo involved, which is obviously hilarious ) - is there a simple biology book that could help?

Punishing her and trying to shame her as one poster suggested just sounds dreadful. She is 5y. She's still so very little.

TBH I would be tempted to not do a great deal at all until the referral comes through and then talk it through with the experts.

To me it sounds like the defiance is a defence mechanism she has built up - "I don;t care" translates as I do care but there is no way I am going to let anyone know or even let myself know else I am going to be very upset.

Hulababy - you are absolutely correct this is how many children react to a medical condition that causes wetting or soiling react. They do care but wont and dont show it.

One of the few sensible things our psychiatrist did was to ask my DC to draw all the members of the family and prioritise who was most upset by the toileting accidents. DC clearly felt most upset yet the reaction to all accidents was just like OP's DD.

Spot on Hulababy IMHO

Wow, you get good advice and support on here sometimes don't 'cha ?
(MN in general)

I sound just like your kid. I used to wet myself throughout the day until I was at least 7 or 8 (longer at night). I just didn't seem to get much warning when I needed to pee! I was deeply ashamed about it, but I always pretended like it wasn't happening and I was fine and dandy. I remember being at the doctor's office and him lecturing me about making sure I go to the loo every 2 hours as though I were a naughty kid, and I could feel it trickling down my leg WHILE he was talking to me!

From the kid's point of view, punishing does not help. My mother was pretty understanding, but some of my aunts were awful. Made me feel an utter failure and idiot about it.

It turned out to be a hormonal thing with me and after a few months of medication I was 100% fine. It was something like some kids don't naturally produce the hormone that reminds them to pee (or to wake up to pee) but once a synthetic version is introduced, the body learns how to produce its own (I forget the details). Hope it gets sorted for you soon. Persevere with the medical side of things; it took years to diagnose what was in the end really simple to fix.

Wow, If I was the OP I'd be so encouraged by your post Spam

Glad things worked out OK for you once the adults got their act together !

There's too much here for me to read - but I would have punished for the pooing on the floor. I would have made her help clear that up, presuming she is usually bowel continent it sounds like she did it to punish OP for sending her to her room.

My DD2 is seven and although toilet trained since 2ish, like her sister, sometimes still has an accident. Unlike her sister, she can get so wrapped up in things she forgets to go, or she often isn't properly awake in the mornings when it happens. It's very rare now, once every few months, but I certainly wouldn't punish for it although she does get a talking to now about not being lazy and going when she needs to. It is very gentle though and this is only after she has had thorough investigations including scans on her kidneys to check for physical reasons.

What most shocked me is OP saying she has has her at the doctors only three times. It seems somewhat laissez- faire as an approach, as does not providing her with suitable underwear when she knows that the child will wet herself at least once a day. It's a shame but the girl who wets herself in primary one is likely to still be known as the girl who wets herself by the time they reach secondary. I wouldn't want tht for my child, but perhaps that's just me.

Rhonda - With faecal impaction a bath acts a bit like an enema so it is quite possible for a stool to pass by accident without warning if DD was put in her room not on the toilet even though may not be incontinent at other times.
We have experienced all the problems OP faces due to medical condition. No one should ever punish for this.

It is not fair to criticise OP for only going to the GP 3 times as many refuse to investigate until school complain and then you can get a referral. This was certainly the case in our situation and ours was wetting and soiling. At age 5 many GPs are still saying the child is young.

The OP needs support not criticism as anyone in this situation will be at their wits end and will be very well aware that their child may then suffer bullying throughout their school life and OP will not want this for her child any more than I did or any other mother.

I don't think the OP has done anything wrong at all

As I said in my first post I think she's shown the patience of a saint.

I just hope she can keep it up and not get distracted by probably well meaning advice that she should be sterner/ punish her dd.

Poor dd, I'm sure she does care. As I'm reading these a medical cause is looking the most likely explanation to me - having learnt a lot from the experiences shared on here, and adding that to what I already know as an early years professional (various roles)

Medical I still,disagree, I am prepared to accept its my parenting style but ay time I have had a problem with my children's health I would knock the doors down literally until it was dealt with. I don't give a hoot about referral routes and if you make enough of a nuisance of yourself, you find others stop caring too.

I did say I would punish if the child was otherwise bowel continent if you read. I know my child was.

And lastly, that doesn't explain why a child,which were itself continually is still left in unsuitable underwear day in day out.

I am sorry for,your childs problem and glad you found a resolution but this is not your circumstances and I comment on my experiences, as do you. Both are equally valid as viewpoints.

Sorry were should read wets.

Thanks to everyone who replied to this thread, just a quick update for you all.

DD has been completely dry for the last three days! , YIPPEE, fireworks etc.

Now this has up until now been virtually unheard of and there have only been two things that have changed.

1. I have started trying to potty train DS so he has been getting lots of praise/attention for going on his potty.

and

2. The letter from the hospital arrived with her latest pediatric appointment in. DD noticed that the letter was addressed to her so I explained about going to the hospital to go and see a doctor to help her to stop wetting herself.

Now I am not celebrating yet as we have been here before, but it does put my mind at ease somewhat that it must be mostly a behavoural issue.

Ooh, very promising sd

Well done to you and DD !

Perhaps DS and her can crack this one together !

Fingers X for you all

Well done to your DD, fingers crossed....

Hooray! Fingers crossed.

Oh sleepdeprived, I'm so pleased for you and your DD. (And to reiterate: I think you've had the patience of a saint. So much admiration.)

Check out www.eric.org.uk for really professional and encouraging support. Hope it's behavioural though and seems to be after what you posted about letter and potty training your ds.

Very very pleased for both of you

Hi sleepdeprivedby2,

I know this is very old but I'm going through something really similar with my daughter and I just wanted to know whether your problems with wetting ended after this? I'm at the end of my tether. My daughter is 3.5 years and it seems there is no end in sight.

Thanks

3.5 years is very young. My oldest dd still had about 5 accidents a day at that age, and still had the odd accident when she started school aged nearly 5. She has now just finished year 1 and is completely dry day and night. Some kids just take a bit longer. My other daughter has been dry day and night with no accidents since her 2nd birthday after only 2 days of potty training, they are all different. X

THIS IS A ZOMBIE THREAD

I'm guessing that the DD has probably sorted her toileting out at some point in the last four and a half years...

If you want answers then start your own thread rather than making people wade through 200 posts from several years ago!