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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To punish DD every time she wets herself.

221 replies

sleepdeprivedby2 · 26/01/2012 21:49

DD is five years old and still wets herself multiple times a day, in the last 6 months she has been dry for 2 days!

I am at my wits end as we have tried absolutely everything to help her, star/reward charts, lots of praise for going to the toilet etc etc, you name it over the last 2 years we have tried it. The only thing we haven't tried is a consequence for being wet!

We are currently waiting for a paediatric referral but this has been cancelled once, so I am not holding out much hope.

The main crux of the problem is that she just doesn't care about being wet, going to the toilet is an inconvenience which she puts off and off. She will wet her pants and still not go to the toilet!

Normally I just ignore it as much as possible and then send her to get herself changed but I am completely fed up of her whole attitude towards it and her determination not to help herself.

We have bought her a watch which vibrates during the school day (every 1.5 hours) to remind her to go, but she just ignores it, puts it in her bag or leaves it at home! Every day when I pick her up she has had at least one change of clothes and is usually wet again and she smells really bad!Sad

Tonight at bath time, she got in the bath (with her 2 year old brother) and stood and wee'd in the bath rather than go to the toilet less than a meter away. I took her out the bath, put her on the toilet and told her to sit there whilst I refilled the bath at which point she started screaming at me so I calmly picked her up and put her in bedroom and shut the door.
Two minutes later she comes in the bathroom "mummy it was a bad idea to put me my room because now there is poo on the floor".
At which point I explained that her behaviour was completely unacceptable, told her to go to the toilet, walked out the bathroom, cleaned the carpet and went to play with her brother.

I know everyone says to ignore the bad behaviour and praise the good but as you can see it's just not working!! There are no real consequences to her wetting herself, we send her to get changed and she plays in her room still in her wet clothes or puts one of her princess dresses on.Hmm

So do we give her a consequence every time she wets to make her realise that this is not acceptable or do we continue to ignore through gritted teeth and hope she is dry before her tenth birthday. Grin

Thanks for reading

OP posts:
SecretMinceRinser · 26/01/2012 22:26

Your last post to me suggests she does have control op. It might be that you need to have a little reward at the end of every week for a while until using the loo becomes habit then start phasing it to one a month or something.

OhTheConfusion · 26/01/2012 22:27

Janelikesjam, you appear to be rather agressive in your posting, the op has came here for help, not shouty capital letters and rudeness.

OP, when your dd said "mummy it was a bad idea to put me my room because now there is poo on the floor" had she mentioned needing the toilet on the way to her room or had she simply done it to be mean? If it is the latter I would assume she is using a situation which she knows upsets you (more than her, as you have mentioned lack of shame) to play on you. Did toilet training ever appear to be working prior to the arrival or your DS?

This really can't be easy :(

ouryve · 26/01/2012 22:27

You would be very unreasonable to punish her. It would do nothing to allay any anxiety she has or improve her sensation. It would be pretty cruel, in fact. I'm sure she doesn't actually like being wet, unless she has serious sensory issues, which I'm sure you would have noticed by now.

SenseofEntitlement · 26/01/2012 22:30

I'm in the same situation with my DD. Watching with interest.

She really wants to start rainbows, but I can't send her if she is going to wee all over the place :(

hohohoshedittant · 26/01/2012 22:31

Will she wear a pull-up? I'd just put a pull-up on her. If she doesn't like it she'll stop wetting. If she doesn't care at least it will save the frustration, smell, bad-feeling,washing etc while you wait for a referral.

janelikesjam · 26/01/2012 22:32

Babies CRY and sometimes scream when they wet or pooh their nappies. So for a 5 year old girl not to notice, seems to me to say something is wrong. If you want to punish her or accuse her of manipulation that says more about you, IMO.

ilovemountains · 26/01/2012 22:33

My DD went through a stage of wetting herself all the time, having been dry for ages previously. I tried no interest, reward charts, stickers, everything. After five changes in one morning I shouted at her. Not proud of myself, but a year later she has wet herself perhaps twice since. My DD just couldn't be bothered to go to the toilet, sitting in wet clothes didn't bother her, and my down playing of it all just made it unimportant to her.

Debs75 · 26/01/2012 22:33

This sounds like my DD1 and as others are mentioning it is more common then you thought.
DD didn't have or recognise the signs that she needed to wee until she was desperate and was wetting herself several times a day until about 11 years old. We tried reward systems, charts, praise and punishment and nothing worked.

Eventually we saw a nurse who specialised in incontinence and she helped us. DD had a relaxed sphincter so would often wee when changing posistions and her bladder was not sensitive, hence not knowing when to wee. We went back to basics and toilet trained her, we took away all the negativity around being wet and she was only told off for not telling us. We introduced a reward for something she really wanted and that helped, as did sticking religiously to it.

You need to have a word with school as they are failing her. If you can smell her wee then the teachers can and her friends can. Her teachers should be monitoring the situation and encouraging her to go to toilet. At 5 they usually have to go before lunch so a teacher or TA should make sure she goes, they don't have to single her out, just make sure she goes along with others.
By telling you she just gets on with it they are again failing her. Some kids will notice and they will start to bully her. I speak from bitter experience with DD1. It is heartbreaking to hear horrid snotty kids shout names at her and other adults/parents not stop them.

Also she does seem to push your buttons, pooing in her bedroom was probably done to get at you. Remember toileting and feeding are two main ways kids can exert control over parents and it produces a lot of anguish. Ask your GP to send you to the eneuresis clinic so you can get some help and good luck

Original poster
sleepdeprivedby2 · 26/01/2012 22:34

No she didn't mention needing the toilet when I took her to her room but she knows to come and use the toilet even during timeouts (she then has to finish the timeout after the toilet trip)

It was just the way she was blaming me for her pooing on the carpet! But the I don't think she did it on purpose, well I would like to think so.

DS came along when she was 2.3 and she loves him to bits. Started potty training at 2.6 and went into pants full time at 2.11 after two false starts.

OP posts:
Miette · 26/01/2012 22:36

That seems to rule out a physical cause then doesn't it? If she can go a day or a week dry if she has a reward at the end? Sounds like you need to get her seen by a professional asap though. Could you go and plead with the GP tomorrow as she may be able to phone and speed things up if she knows it is causing you a great deal of stress.

SecretMinceRinser · 26/01/2012 22:37

A 5 year old isn't a baby. And I can tell you now all babies don't cry when they are wet and some don't even in a dirty nappy. I've found many a surprise in my kids if there hasn't been a string odour.
How do you explain the op's dd staying clean and dry all week when a treat was offered? Did the emotional/physical issue just temporarily disappear?
It says a lot about you jane that you seem to think you know what all children are like. You don't.

perfectstorm · 26/01/2012 22:39

janelikesjam, your posts might be easier to take seriously were they more devoid of capital letters, and less filled with unsubtle self-congratulation and barely-veiled attacks on anyone who thinks differently. Not everyone on this earth who disagrees with you is wrong - and if you think a 5 year old incapable of manipulation, you worry me and underestimate them.

The OP has already said she has chased and chased medical help, and still is. She has also said her child is otherwise stable, happy and without any major changes in her life. She's waiting on a paed referral, where they will obviously go into all these questions in great and informed detail. Right now, here, she's at the end of her rope and asking for help and support - and mostly, she's getting it. So how is your attitude going to help anyone, least of all the child in question? That being so, are you really so lacking in self-esteem that you need to boost it by playing Joan of Arc about a bed-wetting child on Mumsnet? Seriously?

Original poster
sleepdeprivedby2 · 26/01/2012 22:40

hohohoshedittant we tried putting her back into pull ups at 3.6 during a particularly bad period but the problem was she still tried t use them like normal pants and they ended up ripping as she tried to pull them down and we still ended up with wet smell clothes as a result!

Going back pull ups at 5 years old is really something I don't want to do, for her sake.

OP posts:
ToothbrushThief · 26/01/2012 22:40

How odd that your DC cry when something happens in their nappy Jane?

Mine never did.

I have huge sympathy for you OP. I'm no expert but I would avoid punishment as that gives attention to it. You said she stopped for a week for a reward. I know you've done that but I still think this may be your answer. Meanwhile life must be really difficult for you

janelikesjam · 26/01/2012 22:41

"Timeout". She can use the toilet "even during Timeouts"! Big of you! Enough said. Poor kid.

Onetwothreeoops · 26/01/2012 22:42

My dd took a long time to stop having accidents during the day. It started when she had a couple of accidents because of a uti and after that, probably because no one made a fuss, she didn't seem to get that it wasn't actually acceptable to do it.

We tried a lot of things like reward charts etc., but what worked in the end was taking her on a SPECIAL shopping trip to buy SPECIAL knickers that no wee wee was allowed in. She loved those knickers because she chose them herself and they really were special to her. She did have a couple of accidents after that but got really upset that her special knickers were wet. This approach may be worth a try...

Oh and she was 5 at the time :)

coppertop · 26/01/2012 22:43

Being able to stay dry for a few days doesn't necessarily mean that the wetting is deliberate.

My ds could sometimes stay dry but sooner or later the wetting would start up again. In his case it was partly because of bowel issues which had a knock-on effect on his ability to feel when he had a full bladder. The overflow caused by constipation meant that he couldn't always control his pooing either, so again I would be wary of assuming that the bedroom floor incident was deliberate.

I would push for the referral again tbh.

Original poster
sleepdeprivedby2 · 26/01/2012 22:44

Miette last time we saw the doctor I laid it on thick saying that the school had threatened to exclude her on health and safety grounds if the problem wasn't sorted but the doctors response was that the school was being unreasonable and if that was the case then I should send her in pull ups to avoid her being excluded whilst we wait for the referral.

OP posts:
ToothbrushThief · 26/01/2012 22:44

jane did you have toilet issues as a child (or even as an adult?)

I can't think why this has hit such a nerve with you. You're being very confrontational with no rationality to it

BabyGiraffes · 26/01/2012 22:44

Probably a very long shot but I remember when I was young that our neighbour's girl had huge problems staying dry and was punished quite severely for it. Turns out she had two urethras and only full control of one...
Not saying this is your dd's problem OP but in your case I would get her checked out properly.
Having said that my own dd did go through a phase of delaying toilet breaks for so long that she did not always make it in time. Children are complex... Get a second/third opinion.

Tagada · 26/01/2012 22:44

We've had a similar issue with her DD. She has now grown out of it, so there can be light at the end of the tunnel.
The thing that worked for us was a reward for being clean (and nothing else being said than getting changed in case of accident).
It was absolutely infuriating at the time. In truth to this day I believe she just couldn't be bothered to go to the toilet, however odd being in wet pants might seem a comfortable alternative !
Fingers crossed this wil get resolved soon x

ToothbrushThief · 26/01/2012 22:45

coppertop may have something with the bowel cause. Loads of small children suffer with constipation

SecretMinceRinser · 26/01/2012 22:45

I take it you don't do 'timeouts' jane? Neither do I. DD's nursey do though - bunch of amateurs that they are.

Has anyone ever told you that, maybe, just maybe your way isn't always the only, or best, way?

bucketbetty · 26/01/2012 22:45

Op, please don't punish her. I always remember my little sister being punished and it was heart breaking. I m afraid I have no advice on how to stop it.

ToothbrushThief · 26/01/2012 22:46

Does she wet at night?

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