To round up rightwingers and shoot them?

[Hullygully]

I am so bored and frustrated with politely pointing out why rightwingers are wrong about everything.

If I have to read one more thread about why someone with mental health issues shouldn't have had children, or why someone made homeless should have managed better, or why the benefits cap is a good thing because Fuck the Poor, I will get out my gun and raze the boards of MN.

STOP IGNORING THE FACTS YOU RIGHTWING IGNORAMUSES AND CLIMB DOWN OUT OF YOUR OWN NARROW ARSES TO THE WORLD THAT MOST PEOPLE STRUGGLE ALONG IN.

Oh, and you're all cunts BTW.

Yes the rich should pay more in tax to help the the poorer members of society and they are.

As far as corporation tax (different issue entirely to income tax) goes yes loopholes need to be closed.

Labour failed to do this and allowed some companies to get away with paying less tax than the should, hopefully this will change.

coral I don't blame bankers individually. If I had a friend who worked in the sector I wouldn't be blaming them for the recession or making them culpable for the whole industry's behaviour. Despite their larger-than-average salares, most bankers are ultimately just employees, like the rest of us.

I blame the politicians and the banking industry, which is of course made up of individuals but it's a sort of collective madness that people wouldn't be capable of on an individual level IMO.

Money has always had the power to make decent people behave in horrible ways. It's the way of the world and always has been. It's the politicians job to regulate to ensure that this natural tendency doesn't run to excess. Instead, they deregulated and gave the banking industry and other big business so much power that they now have control over the politicians. Politicians of all colours are now too scared to do anything too drastic, and bankers are simply exploiting a system that is there for the exploiting. No individual banker has the power to stand up to that because they will lose their job to make way for someone who has no such qualms. It has to be regulated.

The reason I am so furious about these cuts is because the recession is a legitimate opportunity to really do something about this. And instead we're just attacking the people who are least able to stand up for themselves and have hardly anything already.

Also, with respect, the individual traders may not be responsible but a lot of money has been spent to shore up the institutions which failed to police their own operations or felt they were not taking unnecessary risks. You must be able to see that it is sticks in the craw somewhat to then see the same people accepting their legally contracted bonuses? Surely you can see that?

And, FWIW, I also used to work in the City and still have a lot of Financial clients.

I went to a talk by an economist in coming up to a year ago. He said that the gap between the wealthy and poor in the US and in the UK has grown like crazy in the last twenty years, but no one had really noticed because the "boom" years helped ease the difference. It's very interesting to see how this is now becoming so apparent.

I'm also on repeat yes
The history of benefits people are presneting isn;t quite honest; not just about rising standards but a growing disparity between income and hous9ing, and a refusal from people to accept a price stagnation- people started to confuse roofs with investments. The disparity is the key problem

As for otehr side of the coin- 5 yeras ago I was about to qualify as a teacher (a year from it) and Dh managing a trnasport contract for a large multinational. The firm employing DH didnt just change direction but merged with others and moved away. There were literally no jobs in his field or any other. He went off to retrain and qualifies in a few months, has also been working self employed and has built a viable business in his new field to go into when he graduates. I ended up caring for my boys- all have some form of SN, 2 attend sn schools- but plan to go back to work when DH completes as he can be ehre for schools taxis etc.

I ahev been studying part time to increase my employability.

Maybe my ego but hard;y vodka, bad choices and fecklesness! aND DEFINITELY NOT LAZINESS.

But if corporation tax was reduced for corporations increasing employment within their organisations that surely would help reduce unemployment?

Guess how many fines/investigations the FSA carried out/publicised in 2007? At the height of the boom?

ZERO

Well done FSA. Good complete lack of work there.

Uh Shirley my parents we so poor they couldn't afford to eat. I don't need lessons in poverty.

YY and when I talk about bankers I am categorically NOT talking about those 'at the coalface' . I am talking about the industry, talking about the revolving door that exists between government (and I'm including the last Labour government in this) and the boards of the key financial companies in the CofL.

It's CORRUPT and it has created this horrific mess which this government are now making the poorest pay for. Why would ANY government in the UK (although this shit is happening throughout ghe West) regulate the companies that will eventually give them hundreds of thousands of pounds in payments as members of their Board? Why would ex- 'employees' of large financial companies - and I use the term employees very loosely - campaign for those companies to be liable? C'mon!

How the Hell anyone can think this is reasonable, fair and equitable is literally beyond me.

Why is it every rightwinger I EVER meet says "MY PARENTS WERE POOR".

As if that is in any way relevant.

Slightly off topic, but I do think that "borrowing" has become hugely acceptable in the UK in a way it isn't else where. My UK credit card had a limit of £10,000 -my Belgian one is 1250 euros and I get interest if I save money on it. The idea of a credit card here is a means to make protected purchases, and use when travelling not to run up debt. Mortgages are calculated on a 3rd of your household income AFTER various commitments, not gross.

Also, when I watch ITV etc, the ads are filled with interest free credit sofas, catalogues, PC world type stuff. In Belgium, you see healthy yoghurt and shampoo.

I try my hardest!

It's funny, but I never met anyone who was earning really serious money who actually paid the 42 /50%.
Generally they have accountants who deduct a shedload, and save them £££. I know when I earned a lot more I was really surprised at how much tax I didn't pay.

If the government want to recoup some money from the fallout of the credit crunch, they could start with Vodaphone and go from there.
And, yes, I have become accustomed to the luxury of trying to live on 38 quid a week after rent and bills.
But I am lucky-I will get myself out of this because I am young(ish), intelligent and determined. Not everyone has my advantages.

I should add that this mindset is why rents in the Belgian capital and surrounds are not so fecking ridiculous! That and the 9 year leases. People don't rent to make a quick buck. Long term investment, yes - but then everything stays more stable. Rent can only increase by indexed inflation too.

What is healthy shampoo porto?

It is when being accused of not understanding poverty, or hunger or whatever it is I am being accused of ignoring. But I guess you can't fathom that we might Not all have been born with a silver spoon in our mouth. Sadly my parents are from a country which is in a far worse state than the UK!

I'm never quite convinced by the bankers are evil argument. We're the ones who were buying all the shit we didn't need on credit cards we couldn't pay back.

They're arseholes too, but think we're all a bit to blame.

Northern you cannot hide salary and bonus... Not from any tax man. I'd be interested to know how you managed to avoid that?!

You know, portofino isn't far wrong... How n gods name are wonga allowed to advertise? Or any other fucking debt consolidation firm??? They ought to be outlawed.

Well, they're to blame for sub-prime mortgages. Can't really argue about that.

Oh, I work for a little company and we pay the directors £700.00 per week. Only 140.00 per week (which is under the amount for income tax) is declared and the rest goes as dividends.

If the company doesn't make a profit - and believe me, it's not hard to doctor the books to show non-profit - then the directors don't have to pay any further tax, despite having very expensive company cars and having the majority of their bills and random expenses paid by the company. This has been going on for years - I'm sure quite a bit of it if is...dodgy, but it's not been found out yet. Furthermore they claim Tax Credits.

Meanwhile the employees (me) are slogging by on £300 per week as an LP with 2 kids.

So y'know? That's a fairly low level of the rich getting richer - I dread to think how clever the accountants are for larger businesses.

Again, if people hadn't bought houses they knew they couldn't afford, the subprime mortgage crisis might not have happened.

I'm not arguing in favour of the bankers at all, I just think it's little simplistic to blame them entirely. There are a lot of reasons for the recession.

Goldman Sach paid some bonuses offshore & HMRC rolled over. i think the head of HMRC had 'supper' with senior GS staff & they came to a 'gentlemans agreement' and shook hands.

except there were no gentlemen. & it was not approved by HMRC tax lawyers.

Corporation tax has been reduced Glitter...

And, sorry, but I pay the full whack of 42% of whatever it is on my earnings too but I'm not a seriously high earner. I do know very wealthy people who have multiple investments/offshore accounts etc that have avoided tax.

I think it's more likely the top 0.1% that are seriously wealthy. No idea if that's accurate.