Am I crazy or catholic church wrong to deny First Communion to Downs Syndrome child?!

[mummybiz]

My ex parish and the ex school of my children - which we left after my son was bullied- another story) has gone a step to far this time in my opinion see tinyurl.com/7qkqz9a denying a Downs Syndrome child the chance to take his first communion. I can't think of this as anything other than blatant and horrible discrimination - what do you all think?

From reading the articles linked here - the BBC one and the local press one (not prepared to look at DM) it seems clear that the family don't participate in the life of the church at all. If this is an area where there is pressure on secondary faith school places then I'm not surprised if the parishes are very hot on things like attendance.

"That's the problem with the Catholicc church isn't it, they take the religion bits seriously and you can't fix it with a cheque book."

Hahahahaha

being part od that day with his classmates is so important regardless of the ins and outs of anything else

First communion is not about one day spent with classmates.
It is a very important sacrament, particularly in the catholic faith.
I wonder if you really are catholic even...

The mother has been quoted as saying "Denum doesn?t go every Sunday ?as a one-hour Mass is simply too long for him?"

That's why I don't understand why they want him to take the Sacrament.

If he can't sit through a one hour mass, what is the point in insisting he become Catholic at this stage in his life?

Surely they should wait until he can sit through a one hour mass.

Which is what the church are saying, "He'll be ready in the future"

It's like me saying "I'd like my child to learn the piano but he can't handle the lessons....and now the piano teacher is refusing to let him take his exam"

Well of course that would be the case because he wouldn't be ready for it.

How welcome will his family feel now after this decision? I worked as a SEN teacher and I know how parents have to fight for equality for their children - to find the catholic church taking this stance is appalling whichever way you look at it

Lueji - very much catholic I am almost ashamed to say - taught as a catholic teacher for a decade - have 5 children baptised catholic and church attenders but NO MORE - this parish and school is I hope not typical of catholic parishes nationwide - my child now attends a Cof E school.

Mummybiz It doesn't seem to me that they are bothered about feeling welcome since they don't go. the church is taking completely the right stance - from the facts we have, obviously none of us, including you, know everything about the case - the rules say a child has to be ready. This child is apparently, by the mother's own admission, not ready (he can't sit through mass). I think you are fixing on this case because you have your own axe to grind with that parish, that school and possibly the church in general.

The church always welcomes people to learn and participate.
Sacraments are taken seriously, though.

People do have to be ready. And, as others have said, if he can't sit during Mass, then what's the point of taking his first communion?
By all means do it later when he is prepared.
It's not a sports day equivalent.

mummybiz I do not believe you taught RE in a catholic primary school ever. If you had, you would know the criteria for receiving First Holy Communion. And you would know that 'it's difficult with kids' isn't deemed an acceptable reason for not attending mass regularly.

How welcome will his family feel now after this decision? I worked as a SEN teacher and I know how parents have to fight for equality for their children - to find the catholic church taking this stance is appalling whichever way you look at it

As welcome as they've always been if they take their child to church when he's ready to sit through a mass.

Yes the fight for equality is what's making me so mad about this thread and your attitude OP.

People have fought tirelessly for years for equality for their children and equality for disabled people.

What you and the child's parents appear to be saying is, the child should be allowed to take the sacrament despite not displaying the same amount of understanding as his peers, purely because he has DS.

Where is the equality in that???

It makes a mockery of everything people fight and campaign for.

All the church are telling this family to do is wait until the child understands....and to help him participate more to help that understanding.

PocPoc they're giving the boy exactly the same chance as all the other 7yr olds....and that is the chance to display enough understanding of holy communion in order to take the sacrament.

He can't display that understanding at this moment in time that's all.

Worra is right. It seems pretty clear that this family are not regular church attenders, did not make arrangements for their ds to receive preparation for First Communion, either in the main preparation classes or separately according to his needs, and yet are rocking up on their own schedule and demanding that he should be allowed to join in with all the other children whose families are active church members and have been doing preparation classes for several months already.

The boy's disability is a total red herring - I have known children far, far more disabled than this child (one very low-functioning non-verbal autistic child, and another child very seriously affected by CP, also non-verbal) make their communion. The parents attended church with them and the children received preparation appropriate to their level of understanding (which can be as simple as understanding that communion is a special way of talking to god).

What these parents are doing is exactly equivalent to the families who go to the papers (and the DM is a serial offender for this kind of story) having a hissy fit about their child not having got into a particular school despite the fact that they clearly don't meet the entrance criteria, or live too far away or didn't apply on time, or whatever. The fact is that any institution or organisation will have rules or guidelines or cut-off dates that you have to follow in order to join in. You can't just ignore all those conventions and then run bleating to the papers because the world won't make an exception for you just because you're lovely and special and you want them to because you deserve it.

Isn't there something in scripture where Jesus admonishes his disciples to suffer the little children to come unto him?

It's tricky though.

I'm reading, "George and Sam" The author's two eldest are autistic and she says that religion is a concept too far from them. They live entirely in the present and believing in, for example, an afterlife, a basic Christian tennant, impossible.

I don't believe that a child with DS would find that as difficult however. The theory of mind is a useful way of explaining the difference.

Would still be very sad if I was devout and my son couldn't receive sacraments.

WinterIsComing Nobody has said this child cannot receive sacraments. They have said he isn't ready yet. If you were devout, you would understand this, and would be working with the parish to help your DC become ready.

Not receiving communion doesn't mean you aren't part of the church family anyway. Anyone who is baptised is part of the family, if they want to be. Not attending mass, on the other hand......it doesn't get you kicked out. But it doesn't demonstrate much commitment to be part of things, either.

When I did mine - and I know this is still the case - each child was tested for their understanding of the commitment they were about to make. I went to my first confession the day before, which took ages because the priest took the time to question me quite closely, what I knew, what I understood, the responsibilities I was taking on, what the church's duties were.

Of course I didn't understand fully. I was 6 fgs. I understood as much as the church expects any child to understand at that point.

OP, it seems to me that your problem with the Catholic Church is that you are not a very good Catholic.

Now I've read the article (didn't need to before, as was answering op).

The family aren't one of those who were 'Catholic' for the purposes of choosing a school, but otherwise not bothered, perchance?

It does not matter one jot whether he can sit through mass or understand, that is taking away the whole point. You have to ask what Jesus would have done, and its not this,everyone would be included. What about people who have such LD who will never be able to understand, should they be excluded from receiving holy communion . Goes against the Gospel, and what Jesus would do.

pigletmania Well, the Catholic Church takes the sacraments very seriously and requires quite extensive preparation. And regular attendance at Mass. There are other Christian churches which don't do this and if that's what you want from a church then those are the ones for you (which is clearly the case since a practising Catholic knows full well that the sacraments require preparation in our Church and that's just the way it is).

What about people who have such LD who will never be able to understand, should they be excluded from receiving holy communion

Would you prefer people with LD were forced into all situations/organisations they don't understand then?

How is that fair and who exactly would gain from that?

Perhaps in the interest of equality, they should be recruited by cult leaders when they turn 18 and encouraged to give them their income?

Because that's the likely outcome of recruiting people into things they have no understanding of.

Someone has to act in the child's best interest here and from where I'm standing it's the church and not the child's demanding parents.

It depends what you see Holy Communion as being for, piglet.

If it's an expression of an understanding and a belief, then any people who are unable to understand or believe the concepts clearly should be excluded.

If it's just an outward sign of belonging to a community then everybody should be included.

If it;s the actual, true body and blood of christ - if anyone actually believes that transubstantiation occurs- then surely to goodness you wouldn't want to impose that on anyone who doesn't believe for whatever reason.

Basically, I think the church are right according to their own rules, stupid according to the hysterical hand wringing rules of the DM, and wrong according to my rules. There's no easy black and white answer here - either it's not true, it's not the body and blood, it's just a social construct so it doesn't matter... or it is true, and it matters hugely that everyone who accesses the host does so with full knowledge of what they're doing.

I know which it is in my parish - social construct all the way. In the one in the OP - well, maybe they have themselves a believer in charge.

That's very true, baptism does mean that the child already belongs.

They do sound like the sort of family who aren't exactly that concerned about their child's religious understanding in any case. Is the disability issue muddying the waters?

I had a spiritual experience during my FHC and cried on the altar. Never felt before or since, sadly, but it was very powerful.

Told you I thought it was tricky, because I also agree with piglet in the WWJD stakes. He was quite well known for his policy towards "excluded" and disabled people even within the Jewish community and his opinions of Jewish law regarding these matters. His purpose was to bring the good news to everyone. Universally. This is the entire message of the gospel of St Luke.

Whether that means that everyone regardless of belief should have access to an excellent school at the expense perhaps of people who do have Christianity at the centre of their lives, well, no. Too many issues here for me