Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Am I crazy or catholic church wrong to deny First Communion to Downs Syndrome child?!

235 replies

mummybiz · 19/01/2012 09:01

My ex parish and the ex school of my children - which we left after my son was bullied- another story) has gone a step to far this time in my opinion see tinyurl.com/7qkqz9a denying a Downs Syndrome child the chance to take his first communion. I can't think of this as anything other than blatant and horrible discrimination - what do you all think?

OP posts:
cory · 19/01/2012 09:34

I've just read that when St Bernard was suffering from a chronic gastric complaint his monks dug a pit near his stall in the choir so he could still attend services and cope with...errr... emergencies.

I think that could count as Reasonable Adjustment. Grin

Of course it is hard to know if the church in question have offered alternative provision/extra support. But it seems reasonable to suggest they should have. If the Clairvaux monks could manage it all those centuries ago.

Bakelitebelle · 19/01/2012 09:34

He's had a lucky escape IMO

CrunchyFrog · 19/01/2012 09:44

I've seen children with SLD/ PMLD receive first communion. No way on this earth they will have been able to understand what they are undertaking. Mind you, I don't know any 7/8 year olds that are capable of understanding what it all means. There are lots of apparently NT adults who can't understand what they're forcing their children to take part in.

OTOH, disability is no reason to exclude someone from the rites and rituals of their community if they want to be included.

Basically, IMO, the church is wrong about a whole lot of things.

BarbarianMum · 19/01/2012 09:51

Agree frog

I think if you confirm 7/8 year olds you are clearly not that bothered about people making such commitments with a clear idea of what it entails.

Kladdkaka · 19/01/2012 09:55

Yes Sevenfold it's different in the Catholic church. They take their first communion when they're about 8 and are confirmed around 14.

My daughter wasn't allowed to take her first communion either. I thought it was really sad. The reason was that she didn't go to mass on a Sunday. She did however go to a different church with me and had done every week since she was born. Children who never normally went to church but whose parents took them for a couple of weeks before first communion and never again afterwards were allowed.

annalovesmrbates · 19/01/2012 09:55

How many NT children at 7/8/9 really understand the meaning of communion etc?

BarbarianMum · 19/01/2012 09:59

Yes, sorry, its first communion not confirmation - my big sis did it in a white wedding dress thingy but luckily the family had lapsed before it was my turn.

CrunchyFrog · 19/01/2012 10:02

TBH I really hope they don't understand. It's fucking horrific.

WorraLiberty · 19/01/2012 10:02

How many NT children at 7/8/9 really understand the meaning of communion etc?

Well we had to study it for an entire year and were tested repeatedly on it.

There is nowhere near enough info in that story and it sickens me really that they seem to be taking the 'slant' that because the child has Down's Syndrome, no-one should mention the fact he's not read (if indeed he's not)

Now if the story had mentioned how many other children were deemed not ready (if indeed there were any) it would be worth the paper it was printed on.

The way it reads at the moment, it's just sensationalist journalism.

Davsmum · 19/01/2012 10:02

It cannot be because the child may not understand, otherwise why do they Baptise babies ?? Babies do not understand they are being baptised into a particular faith.
It may be best to baptise when a child understands the implications. Likewise with communion.

WorraLiberty · 19/01/2012 10:03
  • ready...not 'read'
Original poster
mummybiz · 19/01/2012 10:06

I attended this parish my children all baptised there - we attended church every week for years. I taught in a catholic primary school for 12 years - I'm not a troll. I went to tribunal for a family of a deaf child an won the case so please don't take my post the wrong way. We no longer go to church due to our disgust with the way the school and parish were going. Its all indicative of a lack of caring and compassion. I am a mumsnet blogger so there is a bit more at www.mammapolitico.wordpress.com. The odd agressive response to my original post makes me feel some mumsnetters should be a bit more caring in there dealings online. Glad some. People think this refusual is wrong though

OP posts:
CrunchyFrog · 19/01/2012 10:06

davsmum, infant baptism is the promises made by the parents - First Communion, which follows First Confession (another sick making horror) is the first commitment asked of the child itself.

Original poster
mummybiz · 19/01/2012 10:07

Apologies for the typos - its an emotive subject

OP posts:
Original poster
mummybiz · 19/01/2012 10:10

In answer to the question of how many other children were deemed not ready as far as i am aware as an ex parishioner no child has ever been refused before.Though the journalistic credentials of the Daily Mail are questionable I hope this story is taken seriously - it is 100% genuine

OP posts:
WorraLiberty · 19/01/2012 10:10

mummybiz I don't understand your second post on this thread.

What do you mean by "charming response"? Confused

Jux · 19/01/2012 10:10

My cousin, who has DS, took his First Communion, but later than his contemporaries as he simply didn't understand it sufficiently. I think he was 11 or 12.

It's not a bad thing wanting children to understand at least some of what they are undertaking. IMO the longer the indoctrination is put off the better.

WorraLiberty · 19/01/2012 10:11

And how would you know as an ex parishioner how many children were deemed not ready?

Surely you'd have to have access to every school in the parish to know that?

Jux · 19/01/2012 10:12

Davsmum, with baptism, the godparents are making promises on behalf of the baby.

marblerye · 19/01/2012 10:15

There is nowhere near enough information in that article. There are several parishiners at my church with SN who receive communion and I know several dcs with SN who make their 1st communion alongside their peers but I also know loads of dcs (NT) who don't make it because it is at the priest's discretion and tbh its a lot of hard work. They have an evening class (with parents) and a sunday class most weeks for a full year and are expected to attend a weekend mass and need to have made their 1st reconciliation. Every year people think they can turn up at mass 2 weeks before the big day and that is enough because they 'put his name down'. It is akin to asking a priest to marry you wen you never go to mass, won't attend marriage prep courses and don't have an inkling what marriage means. Of course the priest might be a twonk but that can't be deduced from that article.

CamberwickGreen · 19/01/2012 10:17

does he understand it or not?

WorraLiberty · 19/01/2012 10:21

The thing is, people with Down Syndrome often have a mental age that is not on a par with their peers.

This is from the Holy Communion website....

"First Holy Communion is most often celebrated by children around the age of seven or eight, when they have reached the age of reason and are capable of participating in the sacramental life of the Catholic Church. First Holy Communion is to be preceded by the sacraments of baptism and reconciliation."

"It is the responsibility...of parents...as well as of the pastor to see that children who have reached
the use of reason are correctly prepared and are nourished by the divine food as early as possible, preceded by sacramental confession; it is also for the pastor to be vigilant lest any children come to the Holy Banquet who have not reached the use of reason"

So perhaps he just needs longer to reach that 'age of reason'?

www.firstholycommunionday.co.uk/#/holy-communion-day/4516066677

Davsmum · 19/01/2012 10:22

Thanks Crunchyfrog.
In that case,.. I think the Church has a duty to make sure the child does fully understand what they are doing. Its in the interests of the child and also the Church.
By the time a child gets to first communiun I should think he/she has been suitably brainwashed by his parents into going along with it and it may be best left until the child is an adult and more mature ?

CailinDana · 19/01/2012 10:25

I was brought up Catholic and it's been made pretty clear to me down through the years that the Church doesn't care much for people - they're far too dirty and sinful to be bothered with. Priests count, bishops count, the Pope definitely counts, and men are alright, but children, women and people with disabilities are only there to be pushed around at the church's whim. This family should take the message that now is the time to get out of the Church and find a different religion that actually cares about them.

DeWe · 19/01/2012 10:35

My memory (from GCSE RE) is that the Catholic church believe that the sacrament (bread and wine) turn into the actual body and blood of Jesus upon the blessing of the priest and should be treated as such. Taking the sacrament without having been absolved from sins (by confession to a priest and penitance) is in itself a huge sin. (is it one of the "unforgivable sins" in the Catholic church???) There have been cases where a priest has died to protect the sacrament, showing how important they see it.

However I'd argue that I suspect many, if not most 7 year old children are not ready to understand it, and certainly for the girls a lot will be about wearing the bridal dress.

In this case we don't know the individual child, nor parents and each case like this needs to be judged on the individuals concerned.

Swipe left for the next trending thread