Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Am I crazy or catholic church wrong to deny First Communion to Downs Syndrome child?!

235 replies

mummybiz · 19/01/2012 09:01

My ex parish and the ex school of my children - which we left after my son was bullied- another story) has gone a step to far this time in my opinion see tinyurl.com/7qkqz9a denying a Downs Syndrome child the chance to take his first communion. I can't think of this as anything other than blatant and horrible discrimination - what do you all think?

OP posts:
porcamiseria · 19/01/2012 10:38

Its a tough one. I am 100% against any bullying, however I suspect that you might be reading into this emotonally due to what has happended to you.

But in general I think 7 is a young agre anyway for this, in the C of E its usually 11 ish anyway

I dont know, but I just would not want to jump into accusing church of being disablist on this basis

and I would mistrust parents that run to papers rather than trying to resolve

religon is not perfect, but I would be surprised to see any faith being disblist

WipsGlitter · 19/01/2012 10:49

I think I am the "charming response". I have a child with downs syndrome and while this is well meaning the fact that the OP used incorrect terminology (on both the threads she started about this) was very irritating and patronizing. So the OP Aldo needs to be a bit mire caring about what she posts online.

WorraLiberty · 19/01/2012 10:53

I have to say I find the OP a bit patronising too, based on what she's said so far and the extremely limited info she's linked to.

HereIGo · 19/01/2012 10:57

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

lesley33 · 19/01/2012 11:07

Parents bring under fives to mass. My nieces and nephews were going to mass from 3/4 years old.

JoyceDivision · 19/01/2012 11:08

They haven'ta ttended any preperation classes! I'm sorry, but we live local and use the next parish and it's a hardline rule, if you miss ANY preperation class or mass, you lose out, you don't go!

No one should be discriminated against because of disability, but it's nice ghow the papers have missed the main bit out, they've not gone to mass (fair enough, half the kids in my dc class don't) but to not even turn up to the prepartion classes which are, from the outset, defined as essential to attend, that's tyaking the piss.

mummybiz · 19/01/2012 11:13

JoyceDivision they point is they wanted to take him to the preparation classes but weren't allowed to -
I can't see why anyone would say my posts were patronising?

OP posts:
WorraLiberty · 19/01/2012 11:19

I'm confused now.

Where does it say they weren't allowed to take part in preparation classes?

Can you please just link to one informative story?

I've got this from the BBC and all it mentions is she can't take him to church every week and she's annoyed because all her family are Catholic.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-16626123

JoyceDivision · 19/01/2012 11:19

Ahh, sorry, didn't realise they weren't allowed to!

The priest at St Marys is very odd, he spend one of his first masses preachimng from the pulpit old style about abortion (this is a family church with youing children so not sure how parents feel about young children hearing this) very very hardline to possibly the point of being too old fashioned and not caring.

Ho hum, another nail in teh coffin of the catholic church then...

mummybiz · 19/01/2012 11:24

Hi WorraLiberty the local paper coverage is www.batleynews.co.uk/community/family_let_down_by_catholic_faith_1_4157093 Daily Mail slant is a bit different surprise surprise!

OP posts:
mummybiz · 19/01/2012 11:25

sorry should have converted link www.batleynews.co.uk/community/family_let_down_by_catholic_faith_1_4157093

OP posts:
FlangelinaBallerina · 19/01/2012 11:26

CrunchyFrog is right, I think. The child concerned probably doesn't fully understand the sacrament, but he's likely to have this in common with a lot of the others who are receiving it. If a full understanding of the sacrament was needed before making it, plenty of us would have missed out over the years. Myself certainly included. I also think the priest would be much better placed to assess the child's understanding if he had first been allowed to go to the preparation classes. Perhaps the child didn't understand at the outset, but would have done after being taught? I seem to remember that happening to me a lot as a child!

FWIW, my sister has special needs and was able to make her communion and confirmation, with never the remotest issue raised about any of it. She's also turned out to be more religiously observant than any of her siblings- we are all cultural Catholics but secularised and non-religious. So it was probably a good call on the part of the church.

WorraLiberty · 19/01/2012 11:27

I'm not even going to look at the Daily Mail...there's no point.

But re the Batley news, it says....

"The diocese has written to Denum?s parents saying their son is not yet ready as he has ?limited concentration? and does not enjoy Mass"

"But Mrs Ellarby said she never received an invite and by the time her family heard about the classes they had missed the first meeting."

So she only missed the first meeting...if she'd gone to church she would have known about it and been in a better position to argue her son's case surely?

mummybiz · 19/01/2012 11:27

My faith in the organised catholic church has been all but destroyed by my experiences in that parish/school - the old criticisms of the catholic church - ie sweep things under the carpet, say one thing do another, lay on the guilt, make no attempt to understand different family circumstances seem to apply. If the church wants to survive it needs to change

OP posts:
mummybiz · 19/01/2012 11:30

She won't have been the only one - there are very few families who attend every week - and they have not been refused.Given her circumstances I understand =- the church is very unwelcoming and old fashioned compared to some parishes and I am sure she would find it difficult - I found it difficult with my five children

OP posts:
WorraLiberty · 19/01/2012 11:31

It also says....

"In a statement, a Diocese spokesman said: ?Often Baptism is celebrated for babies in order to bring them into the life of the Church but they only proceed to the Sacrament of First Communion when they take part in the Church?s life and understand the Church?s faith in regard to these Sacraments. Denum?s family has not participated in the regular life of the Church or in the preparation preceding First Communion

?We hope that this will change as Denum grows and we are working with him and his family to help him achieve this.?

So basically, it looks as though this has nothing to do with Denum having DS, but more to do with the fact the parents don't take him to church?

I would expect any child who has such limited participation wouldn't be ready to take their first holy communion.

lesley33 · 19/01/2012 11:36

Perhaps the church is to blame. But even the rep from the Down's Association says it is a pity that both parties won't compromise. This suggests faults on both sides, as presumably they know the details of the case.

WorraLiberty · 19/01/2012 11:37

She won't have been the only one - there are very few families who attend every week - and they have not been refused

Because despite not attending church every week, they still understood enough to participate perhaps?

SardineQueen · 19/01/2012 11:47

Not read all thread but I did first holy communion at 6 or 7 with my whole class from school and I certainly didn't really understand what was going on and I doubt my classmates did either.

Confirmation a different matter possibly but based on the OP what they have done seems ridiculous and totally out of order.

thetasigmamum · 19/01/2012 11:50

Barbarian Catholics are NOT confirmed at age 7/8. Confirmation isn't allowed until around or after your 14th birthday and they are rally quite strict about it - my DD1 got in under the wire this year, because the confirmations are being held in april and she has a birthday in May AND she will be doing her GCSE's in y10, so to make her wait until next year and have to do all the extra classes etc when she is about to do her GCSEs is a bit mean - but other kids she was at primary school with, with June/July/August birthdays, have been told they have to wait till next year (their school doesn't do GCSEs early so it's not such a problem for them).

There are several people with DS at our church, ranging from children to a couple of adults, who receive communion every week. I am also aware of a child with CP who made her first communion a few years ago, and one with autism who made his first communion at the same time as my DS (although he is a year older - his parents wanted to wait a bit). I'm (sadly) sure there are plenty of individuals within the church, some of them in positions of power, who are horrible. But as an organisation, the church in England and Wales has always been seen as having a special ministry to - well, the people who need it the most.

mummybiz · 19/01/2012 11:50

When push comes to shove my bottom line is this : Let the children come to me; do not hinder them, for to such belongs the kingdom of God. Mark 10:13.-16m - the priest has not found a way to compromise or make this work - being part od that day with his classmates is so important regardless of the ins and outs of anything else.

OP posts:
StrandedBear · 19/01/2012 11:51

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

WorraLiberty · 19/01/2012 11:55

I think you're totally wrong OP

Imo when push comes to shove, if the parents want him to be Catholic they need to attend church with him and make sure he understands as much as the other children do.

He is welcome at church and the church are willing to accept him when he's ready...but they can't force the parents into a compromise can they?

The lady from the Down?s Syndrome Association speaks sense I think.

Lueji · 19/01/2012 11:59

Worra, I fully agree.

OP,
the only possibly aggressive comment after your first post was someone quite rightly upset that you wrote "Down's syndrome child".

Catholic parishes vary as do parishes of other faiths, often to do with the local priest/vicar.

And I don't think it is a matter of being "let down by Catholic faith". If anything by a priest, or in this case a local school.

canistartagainplease · 19/01/2012 12:03

As a kid, in the sixties, we were all prepared for first holy communion, over a number of weeks, and even though it was an oppertunity for a frock and a party,there was a lot of work before hand.

In my childhood down syndrome children were all in special schools and that was reflected throughout society,less was expected of them.

Now, down syndrome kids are main stream,and they are prepared at church in the same way,they are probably more supported,according to need, but they have to have an understanding of what they are doing, ive seen d.s kids receive communion.( My own kids had first holy communion 5-10 years ago)
The child may be a couple of years older than their peer group, but thats obviously liked to their learning ability

There seems to be an expectation here by the parents in A) not supporting the understanding of the mass with their boy, they admit he cant sit through a mass and b)crying descimination because they cant understand that it isnt just a photo opportunity and party.
This says more about the parents than their child.
The boy can still come up to recieve a blessing and be prepared in his own time . Some kids are ready at one age ,some ,a few years later. No ones going to point a finger.

Swipe left for the next trending thread