Am I crazy or catholic church wrong to deny First Communion to Downs Syndrome child?!

[mummybiz]

My ex parish and the ex school of my children - which we left after my son was bullied- another story) has gone a step to far this time in my opinion see tinyurl.com/7qkqz9a denying a Downs Syndrome child the chance to take his first communion. I can't think of this as anything other than blatant and horrible discrimination - what do you all think?

FRIENDS.

I agree with sieglinde that it's not just a matter of pleasing adults. DS was desperate to be able to take communion, and so is DD.

And if DD wanted to please me she would agree to wear a white dress next year. So far she is adamant she will be wearing a shirt and tie.

I don't see why some people take an issue with the idea of having to show some level of commitment before first holy communion. If someone isn't showing that why would they want to do it anyway?

I am c of e, I made the choice at 10 that I wanted to be confirmed, I attended the lessons and showed that I was ready before I was confirmed. Someone else started the confirmation classs at the same time as me but wasn't ready even though he was older so he wasn't confirmed until the next year.

I agree with Sieglinde's comment on the umbrage people take about parents passing on their religious beliefs, usually accompanied by a reference to the 'give me a child' quote.

I think though, you have to ask yourself whether those with learning disabilities are accepted in the catholic church and what kind of message this kind of action sends out to its congregation. What if the child in question NEVER has the capacity to understand his first communion? will he never be confirmed in the church?

I must admit, though this is a personal opinion and I am not anti catholic, but it is something that puts me off as NON catholic, the way it is all taken so seriously, even to the point where members of the congregation are excluded. I understand that is often the case with orthodox religion though. But even though we are not religious (my husband and I) my daughter likes going to Church and she has SLD too and our local CofE Church just accepts us there for worship and accepts our daughter too and I do think publicity for the Catholic Church like this sends a whole heap of messages out to those of us who have children with learning disabilities and it does say you are not welcome. The way we all worship God (or don't) and how we portray our beliefs on a personal level to our capacity MUST have some leeway as to whether our belief is an important as the next person and for someone with severe learning disabilities, maybe they understand to the capacity they can and want to commit within their framework of understanding. Surely that isn't wrong?

You may all think i am a hypocrite for taking my daughter for Holy Communion, I take her because she asks to go and she is accepted there and I am humbled because people do accept her there and I think she gets alot from the experience and as I say, i am not a believer, but my daughter is treated like any other person in our church and I believe that is what the christian moral framework is based on, being accepting to those who are unfortunate, ill, disabled, down on their luck, homeless or you know, just 'normal'.

Well said Agincourt I completely agree with your post.

People with learning disabilities cannot all be lumped together!
My friend's DD who has DS and MLD has recently taken her first Holy Communion, My DN who was ASD and MLD has not.
Their ability to undertand the conceot of transubstantiation is assessed individually.

but the point is, they may understand within their capability. I do not want people with learning disabilities to be lumped together either, but I think common sense should prevail and we should not judge people on what our desires are, but rather on what theirs are. The world and our understanding of those that are in it has changed, especially over the last 30 years, and as society is more inclusive these sort of issues are going to become more common. When faced with the reality that your child (or charge) may never understand transubstantiation in the traditional sense but wants to conform like everyone and has that wish, but can't because it's not traditionally acceptable, what do you think people will do? Society and life is discriminative enough for these people and their families and carers, do you think the Church becoming so, or at least being painted as so, is going to help matters?

Being a member of the congregation involves going to Mass.

I don't think this case was about the child's SN. The parents rarely darkened the door of the church. It's not unreasonable for the priest to draw a line there. It's a coincidence that the child has SN; I think the main reason not to proceed with the sacrament was that the child would probably not be allowed the opportunity to partake again. Catholics have an obligation to go to Mass and to partake of the sacraments regularly. Catholic parents who have their children baptised are asked to commit to this. These parents had their child baptised and must have made this commitment, which they then baulked at for whatever reason. It's not just a matter of formulaic words.

The Catholic Church does take it all seriously. It is a serious church. Yes that is offputting to some, but if a church holds no belief seriously then what is the point?

The Catholic Church has been painted in a lot of unflattering ways and still trundles on. People who care about the truth will scratch beneath the surface and find it. People who don't -- hopefully they will at some later point.

The vast majority of parishes do give the benefit of the doubt to candidates for the sacraments. Where a candidate is told No, there are reasons such as the real ones in this case, the lack of commitment on the part of the parents to provide an opportunity for the child to continue to participate.

Maybe the family felt unable to go to mass because of the child's special need? maybe he interrupted the proceedings, maybe he was tutted at? maybe they wanted to go but felt excluded?

Doesn't the Catholic church do a Family Communion?

I am not underestimating the seriousness of religion, but it's the seriousness of religion in which it excludes those that do not fit it through a cause they cannot control themselves which sits uneasy on me and learning disability is one of those causes.

I don't know whether the family did or did not go to mass for whatever reason but they obviously felt strongly enough about it to go to press and any judgement that is made on the family by those that follow Catholicism should take into account the extreme circumstances in which the family operate under and should be treated accordingly.

YANBU

Agincourt

Why would it necessarily matter if the child never takes communion?

My son has attended several catholic ceremonies. He has never been made unwelcome. Two were funerals.
The priests were keen to ensure that he felt comfortable and content. I never felt unwelcome.

Yes, the availability of a children's room might have been a factor. Maybe if that was the case there might have been a nearby parish were there was such a facility?

The idea that this is par for the course for all Catholic parishes is just wrong. The church simply does not exclude those who do not fit it through a cause they cannot control themselves. The vast majority of parishes would make absolutely everyone welcome. Mine does a 9 o'clock children's Mass, with a children's choir, children doing the readings and intercessions, bringing up the gifts, and gathering around the altar for a child oriented sermon that is often hilarious as the priests often ask questions and the children put up their hands to give unwittingly funny answers.

My own parish has a cry room, hearing aids, space reserved in the first pews for people who can't get up to walk to Communion for reasons of age, illness or disability (the priest and the Eucharistic go along the pew with the bread and wine) and more spaces for wheelchairs. The parish has spent a lot of money modifying a door for wheelchair access and building a ramp. A local community for SN adults attends a certain Mass every Sunday. They all sit in the first pews. It's a well off parish and very active in the social justice field, but it is not alone in the sort of efforts it makes and certainly not in its attitude.

The church fills to overflowing at Christmas and Easter with people who have clearly never been before or haven't been for years -- packed to the outside doors, with the cry room and the sides of the altar lined with fold up chairs to accommodate all comers. Ushers direct the various seated sections at communion time or there would be mayhem. People do not get quizzed as to their motives or background if they go to communion. At the end of all the Masses the priest invites everyone to return, mentions the fact that the adult religious ed phone number is on the first page of the church bulletin, available at the door, and thanks them for their participation in the worship of God. There are many adult baptisms every year so maybe some take up the invitation.

Because it is obviously important to the family that he is accepted in the same manner as his contemporaries within the Church. I am happy to hear your son has never been discriminated against within the Catholic Church though :)

Surely then they should take him to church or that can never happen

If the parents are holding him back from participation in the church through Mass attendance then they only have themselves to blame, and if participation was important to them and not just the one off First Communion event then I do not think this situation would have arisen -- the issue seems to be that the parents do not attend Mass and so the child does not either. He is not expected to get there on his own or participate without support from his parents. If they are not willing to support his participation then it is their lack of commitment that is the problem. First Communion is not supposed to be a one off event. It is supposed to be the first of many.

Maybe the family felt unable to go to mass because of the child's special need? maybe he interrupted the proceedings, maybe he was tutted at? maybe they wanted to go but felt excluded?
Doesn't the Catholic church do a Family Communion?

Why would you assume that they felt excluded from Mass?

And, no the Catholic church does not do Family Communion.
Most Catholic churches conduct Children Masses, which are very welcoming to children in general.
And I have never seen anyone be sent away for having a crying baby, or even comments about children walking around the church.

I have bfed 5 babies right there in the pew in Catholic churches on two continents and have never been to any Mass (except the crack of dawn ones) that didn't feature at least one runaway toddler and pursuing parent or older sibling. The church I went to as a child often had dogs running about too, and on one memorable occasion a dogfight broke out.

Lueji, because I have a child like the one in the article have been excluded from millions of things, that's why, plus I am asking questions because I am not catholic. I am more than happy to be educated about how it all works within your churches though, that's why i asked.

it is not the same as breastfeeding or toddlers though. many children and adults with severe learning disabilities will display inappropriate and challenging behaviours

I am :o at the ad hock dog fight though!

It brought proceedings to a crashing halt in no uncertain fashion. Several able-bodied men had to pull them all apart.

The priest at that particular time had some sort of sleep disorder and after Communion he would settle on his chair for the normal quiet post-communion reflection time, and nod off. After a bit, when the coughing from the congregation would reach a certain level, one of the lectors would tap him on the shoulder and he would sit up with a jolt.

Agincourt,

I just don't think it's fair that people without knowledge of Catholicism and its practices imply that this family must be right, even though there was nothing in the news (or their statements) that suggested that that particular family felt uncomfortable at masses or felt excluded, apart from preparation to Holy Communion.