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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Am I crazy or catholic church wrong to deny First Communion to Downs Syndrome child?!

235 replies

mummybiz · 19/01/2012 09:01

My ex parish and the ex school of my children - which we left after my son was bullied- another story) has gone a step to far this time in my opinion see tinyurl.com/7qkqz9a denying a Downs Syndrome child the chance to take his first communion. I can't think of this as anything other than blatant and horrible discrimination - what do you all think?

OP posts:
edam · 22/01/2012 23:13

My great-uncle had learning disabilities in the days when kids were shunted off to homes and parents told to forget about them. (My Great-Grandmother and Gran - his sister - were unusual in that they visited him at least once a week.) I have no idea whether he was allowed first holy communion or confirmed or what but he lived in Catholic homes throughout his life and was taken to Lourdes. He found his faith a great comfort - no-one ever bothered to try to teach him to read but he knew his Hail Mary and Lord's Prayer off by heart.

Tbh even as a child I found the attitude of the nuns who ran the home rather patronising - they treated him and all the residents as backwards children even when he was in his 60s and 70s - but he did genuinely enjoy church services and the accoutrements of religion, so I never interfered (especially as my Gran was very religious and would not have welcomed it).

marblerye · 22/01/2012 23:24

If for some reason you can't attend mass it is simple enough to have the priest or a eucharistic minister come to your house. The implication from the mother when she was in TV was the priest didn't know her or know her child so it is unlikely that she does receive communion herself either at church or at home and if it is because she feels she can't take her child to mass rather than the far more likely she can't be arsed and she isn't a practicing Catholic then why the fuck hasn't she done something about it before now. People might avoid mass for 7 years due to illness or something but a practicing Catholic doesn't avoid their priest for 7 years.

mathanxiety · 23/01/2012 02:37

There are Ministers of Care at my parish who travel miles every week bringing communion to the homebound and reading the daily readings with them, not just to the elderly but to any parishioners who are unable to get to the church for any reason, and a priest goes to all the local hospitals for visits if the nearest and dearest call the rectory and request a visit. Priests don't go hiding themselves away as a rule and most parishes have Eucharistic ministers who go to your house if you request it, like meals on wheels.

sieglinde · 23/01/2012 08:50

Yep, the RC church has rules. That's why I stick to it (against some of my instincts). Yes, some rules are hard for some people, but the idea might be that they are being asked to do something especially challenging. Yes, it's REALLY tough to be a gay Catholic, or a divorced Catholic. But on the other hand the C of E is so eager to be inclusive and to bend the rules that it seems unconvinced of its own credo. I say this with love - my mother was C of E and I have been to lots of C of E events, and they have the mooost beautiful prayer book and bible translation. But they don't seem quite to believe in those anymore, even. Mum found this tough going too. You bend stuff around to help person A and make life and faith difficult for person B.

I really hope this child who is the subject of the OP arrives at understanding soon. I will pray about it.

Agincourt · 23/01/2012 13:59

To be fair Lueji, I was trying to explore possibilities that may not have been put forward in the original article as I believe the situation is more complex on all sides, than the black and white print in the article. I didn't mean to cause offence

mathanxiety · 23/01/2012 14:59

I have found the Church to be most welcoming and extremely helpful as a divorced Catholic, and the annulment process was fair and conducted by extremely intelligent, articulate and flexible-minded (for want of a better word) people.

Jux · 25/01/2012 03:29

Agincourt, the Catholic Church in general welcomes anyone, but will not give the sacraments without instruction and some level of understanding. You and your child would be most welcome to any Catholic parish in the country.

If a child with SN were unable to understand in full what they were committing to, so long as they understood about receiving Jesus' body and blood, I suspect that would be enough. I think they can be accommodating. However, it would then place the onus on the parents of a child with SN to be extra-supportive to that child, to keep up with his/her Mass attendance, confession, and with receiving communion on a regular basis. I'm pretty sure that my cousin didn't understand when he did hid FHC, but he could say what was happening, and the family were staunch and devout and regular attenders, and so could ensure that his life was constantly in touch with Catholicism and the Church.

That is why I think this family just couldn't be arsed to get up on Sunday morning to take him to church. They just wanted him to do it because the other kids in class were doing it. If they went to church they'd have known when the classes were.

working9while5 · 25/01/2012 09:14

I just want to make a point about the use of "disabled child" or "autistic boy".

In the phrases "a child with autism", "a child with DS", you are embedding the information about the disability after the subject. Some believe this is putting the child first, but for some people writing/saying a sentence in this way is actually a good deal less "natural" (and I mean this in terms of how they say sentences usually, not how they talk about disability) than putting the adjective before the subject. A great many people will never say "the girl with the black hair was playing on the swing", or "the boy with the blonde hair was kissing the girl with the red hair", as this type of sentence structure is unnatural for them and takes slightly longer to process.

This doesn't mean that if they choose to "head" the sentence with the adjective that they are foregrounding this information because they think it's more relevant to who that person is, but rather because it is more relevant to what they want to highlight in the context of that discussion e.g. If I say "the red-headed girl gave it to me", I am not viewing her as a red-head first and a girl second, I am saying that out of all the girls that I could be talking about in the crowd, I am talking about this one. I highlight the information that makes it easiest for you to process who I am talking about.

So there's a subtlety there. If the information is given redundantly e.g. I say "Johnny the Downs Syndrome boy" even though there's only one child who has DS in the class, that's likely to say something about what the person thinks e.g. but arguably, that's the case no matter how you present that information. For example, if someone says, "my sister is going on a date tonight" vs "my sister is going on a date tonight with a black man" or "my sister is going on a date tonight with a man who is black" how that information is given about the colour of the man's skin is irrelevant. The point is why does that person think that information is relevant? And there are different possible interpretations based on what the person giving the information thinks about black people.... it could be that the speaker's sister is black herself, and doesn't agree with interracial dating, and that she is happy that her sister is dating someone of her own race. Or it could be the more obvious form of racism. Context is everything.

If I read "Curious George" to my toddler, I always simplify "the man with the yellow hat" by chunking the sentence to "The man is driving", as I know that for a 2 year old who is just learning to talk and listen to a bedtime story, "The man with the yellow hat is driving" is just too much to process. I am not denying the importance of the yellow-hat to the man, nor am I refusing to see him as he truly is because I omit this information. In the same way, it can be a bit of a leap to suggest that because someone says "the autistic boy", "the Down's boy" in a conversation where the fact of the disability is of high relevance to the discussion that they are denying the personhood of people with disabilities. Remember, many in the Deaf community prefer to be called Deaf rather than "a person with hearing impairment". I also know several adults with autism who see their autism as central to who they are and describe themselves as "an autistic woman" or "an autistic man". We all interpret these things differently, and that's fine.. but it is best to assume the principle that generally average people who are not aware of the politics do not intend to insult when they use language in this way.

edam · 25/01/2012 22:56

sieglinde - the Catholic Church isn't always that hot on its own rules though. The ones about not employing paedophiles, for instance - it's not all historic, there are cases happening today (the person in charge of ruddy safeguarding for the South West was arrested for having lots of images on his computer recently).

My point being, you'd think a church that has made such an unbelievable mess of things, and harmed so many thousands of children - in direct contradiction of the words of Jesus - would be far more humble about allowing any child to be part of their faith. Rather than putting up barriers. The heirarchy should be extremely grateful that any family is prepared to trust them, not turning round and saying 'some people aren't good enough for us'.

Agincourt · 26/01/2012 11:35

I do know what you mean working9while5, I also think with thinking within context if someone has said something clumsily but not without thought and not meaning their wording in a derogatory fashion, then I really don't think it matters and I don't take offence. I think there is far more of a problem with outdated language being used such as mongol, handicapped etc and I have corrected people on using terms such as those, but if someone said to me 'your disabled daughter' I wouldn't necessarily think they were putting her disability first, i would think they were being factual Confused

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