AIBU about earth mothers narrow mindedness?

[lolaflores]

according to earth mother friend, children in this country are raised at arms length and treated very coldly. any thing that upsets her 5 year old is labeled trauma. He would get upset about speech therapy class, so she stopped going. He has tantrums every day after school, we have stopped walking home with them cos it takes forever.He has never been dry at night, not due to bed wetting, but because she cannot face the stress of it.
Any view that does not chime with hers is denounced as old fashioned, unloving and horrid. She sights all the sources that agree with her. Yet, she moans endlessly about not enough sleep due to baby sleeping with them and 5 year old constantly waking through the night. Husband of course does not stir. I have realised she does not want useful input, but a martyr medal. I didn't know that motherhood had to be a test of endurance. she makes me feel all kind of shame at my approach! I sound like a victorian poor house director in comparison. how do I stand my ground

tryharder

the concept of "Earth Mother" which I take to mean someone who is very in tune with and responsive to her children's needs

see...that to me is the definition of 90% of 'normal',labelled or unlabelled mothers, not an 'Earth Mother'. Thats what parenting is all about

Maybe we need a definition of Earth Mother? or forget that OP ever used that descriptor; i think its irrelevant.

I do agree that what OP is dealing with is a closed-minded judgmental PITA mother who is (unintentionally)offending OP and impacting on her life. she may or may not be struggling? but she certainly doesnt want OPs input. I dont think OP is in any way obligated to support her if she feels upset by her; in my experience,depending on all the nuances, she may want to remove her own child from the other mothers influences?

very very good point about fathers input!!

shagmundfreud

some do think that the more you suffer, the better your parenting though. If you arent having a hard time, then you arent 'suffering for your cause' -you have 'taken the easy route'-suggesting that the harder route if preferable

"some do think that the more you suffer, the better your parenting though. If you arent having a hard time, then you arent 'suffering for your cause' -you have 'taken the easy route'-suggesting that the harder route if preferable"

Who?

Or is that something you've made up to suit your argument?

And if it is true - then the martyrdom falls on all sides: witness the many threads about people working themselves into the ground to provide private schooling/foreign holidays/a nice home for their children.

Re: definition of 'earth mother' - this is the Macmillan dictionary one:

"a woman who prefers natural methods and styles of living and likes to look after people, for example by cooking meals for them"

lol at that last bit!

The father has been less than hands on. I think I mentioned that earlier on. But, friend has never tackled him. She does all the getting ups and what have you. The hard graft is left to her. They have a difficult marriage, the child has witnessed alot of conflict and now starts to react very negatively to the father when he kicks off. Name calling and what have you. She has shit coming in on every side and is drowning. She looks like she is sleepwalking and it doesn;t seem like there is anything anyone can do. She has left him before, returned, had DS2 and very little has changed.

Bejezzus I don't think parenting is an endurance test to be honest. Some bits of it are hard. no two ways about it, but this constant grind that I see her going through when to my mind she doesn't have to is a bit bewildering. but as my last post suggests, the problems are legion really

shaggers are you this aggresive in real life or do you just like to do it anonymously on here?

shagmundfreud no, I didnt make it up and I dont have an arguement.

I do get fed up with labels- and quite often it is labels people attach to themselves, rather than how others label them

Alfie Kohn and the like as an example-'if you put in the extra work now you will reap the benefits in coming years' and the suggestion that if you say 'no' to a child you have made them think your love is conditional etc etc there was even a quote on one thread on here, which suggested that UPed children are lesslikely to end up in jail!!!

I fit that definition of 'Earth Mother', fucked if Id assign myself such a pretentious label

lola it does sound as if the women is having a helluva time

does the father 'name call' the mother? it could completely explain childs behaviour.......

maybe you need to get her round for a coffee with no kids and let her step of the merry go round for an hour?

let her know that she can talk to you about anything she wants to?

basically, we are all in the fucking dark here. so many factors must be taken into account that we are none of us experts except in the field of our own child.
But, I do think that parents have been made to feel that they are incapable of parenting properly and the world is full of experts who are here to tell you how to do it. Not doing it their way means all kinds of hell ahead. We as parent need more confidence in our own abilities.

bejeezus she is never without the kids. she talks openly about him. I don't know why she is still there, sure we all have our needs don't we. she knows I am here to listen to her, helped her out the first time she left. it is a fucking mess really. i feel for the kids and DS is acting out all over the place. she keeps thinking it is not an issue and I think it is not parenting per se, but the atmosphere he is growing up in. She is rejecting services and I can only think this is for the worst. But, I am not going to say, she will get highly defensive and so on and so on and ...

Na, where is your sense of cliche, people? An Earth Mother is someone who:

• wears silly cloth wrap things round her head, and ethnic print floaty trousers that get tangled in her bicycle chain
• has pubic hair like Leo Sayer's head
• co-sleeps with several children, kicking her partner out in favour of the children until the youngest is 18
• never wears a bra because she has spent the last ten years breastfeeding everything in sight and consequently thinks bras are an expensive luxury if you never have them done up anyway
• cooks with brown flour, brown rice, brown tofu and brown everything
• never cleans her house properly for fear of that unspeakable horror, "chemicals"
• wears one pair of very smelly Birkenstocks day in day out
• suffers permanent back ache from hauling massive toddlers around in a ring sling for her entire adult life
• prides herself in her white laundry appearing vaguely grey or beige the whole time
• considers a decadent night out to be a bonfire in the back garden with a glass of home brewed parsnip wine and a foot massage (actually I could do with a bit of that myself, but we'll move swiftly on)
• lets her children climb up the curtains and leap off onto her battered and broken sofa on a daily basis, as 'all behaviour is expression'
• has a partner with a funny beard who looks like the bloke out of the Joy of Sex
• Possesses no baby items whatsoever (other than aforementioned ring sling and a dozen third hand washable nappies) on the grounds that they are materialistic nonsense
• Has not cleared away a half-finished jigsaw in a decade

I could go on. Anyway, you get my drift.

IME what is happening at home has a massive massive impact on childs behaviour. I dont know what you can do,if she wont let you in

can she come round with baby when kids are at school?

for your own peace, you might have to keep your distance until she is ready to tak/ do summat about it

is her husband worse than name calling?

if they arent parenting together and he is undermining her and she is slagging him off in front of the kids, kids wont know what is up and what is down

(this is NOT judgmental BTW-been there myself)

Boffin

yeah, I think that covers it. he has been verging on the physical on a few occasions, but she seems to be able to get by it, so what can you do. I have said once, he will never change. there was no reply to that. I know she knows it. He is an extraordinarily odd person, has some really bizarre ideas about parenting. She went to boarding school, he refers to this as her being in care.....

Boffin you are going to be in sooooo much trouble.

Funnily enough boffin my mother would describe my parenting as a bit like your version of earth mother. specially the quality and brightness of my washing.

Boffin, we need kaftans!

And definitely a Partner, not a Husband!

No, a mu mu. I never tend my lady garden but have never braided it with beads which I actually witnessed on a beach back in the day when I lived in the canaries. she was German, it was a shock. lovley looking girl mind, but no one was looking at her face

I feel that you are letting your own issues get in the way of helping your friend. Her parenting style somehow makes you feel uncomfortable, and from what you say I don't think it is just because you are worried about her and her family. It's because it makes you feel worried and guilty about your own parenting. I think it is affecting the way that you view your friend and her problems.
It sounds like she would have a lot of problems whether she went for your parenting approach or stuck to her own. She probably doesn't need you to get her to change parenting style. (And I totally don't buy that she is 'badgering' you for solutions - you could just consistently say that you don't have the answers, and let her talk things through). She probably needs you to be kind and understanding to her.
I think the best thing you can do to help her is to work out honestly why her parenting makes you feel guilty, and address that. Maybe you truly feel like you may have gone too far away from earth-mothering yourself, and should adapt a little until you feel comfortable with your own parenting? Once you are no longer angry with her, then you can be a good friend to her.

buy her the Lundy Bancroft book

Encourage her on to the 'Relationships' sectionof mumsent- loads of great links at the begin of the Abusive Relationships Support Thread 6

If I were you, I would have the conversation with her-tell her you are concernedabout her,about her relationship,about the effect it is having onher kids. There are family support services she can go to for help with the childrens behaviour without any consequences. Let her know, you will help her get help
I say that though, because Iknow MY friends would be receptive tothat, even if they rejected it, I wouldnt loose them. I dont know thiswomen though, or you or what your friendship is like.

I was in a bad relationship. At times I would have loved forpeople to reach out and tell me they could see it for what it was. At other times I would have been mortified with shame.

Thing is -it doesnt sound like your friendship will survive how it is - so maybe you have nothing to loose, in talking toher

Personally speaking, I hotly deny having any of these characteristics whatsoever. Occasionally I throw a jam jar in the landfill bin just to be rebellious, and once I had a bikini wax.

I think the parenting concerns is a red herring?

it is hard to support someone in a (debatable) abusive relationship

does anyone over the age of 20, tend their lady-garden???