AIBU about earth mothers narrow mindedness?

[lolaflores]

according to earth mother friend, children in this country are raised at arms length and treated very coldly. any thing that upsets her 5 year old is labeled trauma. He would get upset about speech therapy class, so she stopped going. He has tantrums every day after school, we have stopped walking home with them cos it takes forever.He has never been dry at night, not due to bed wetting, but because she cannot face the stress of it.
Any view that does not chime with hers is denounced as old fashioned, unloving and horrid. She sights all the sources that agree with her. Yet, she moans endlessly about not enough sleep due to baby sleeping with them and 5 year old constantly waking through the night. Husband of course does not stir. I have realised she does not want useful input, but a martyr medal. I didn't know that motherhood had to be a test of endurance. she makes me feel all kind of shame at my approach! I sound like a victorian poor house director in comparison. how do I stand my ground

Good point tmesis but at least they tried. Why ask about training or attempts to train when you are not the least bit inclined to do so? you know, turn around at some point and then say you haven't bothered and it seems like to much hard work. Right then, I shall save my breath in future. But then she badgers on and on about something else and what do you do?

"Perhaps I am a superior know it all that swans about criticising where i see fit with not a shred of empathy or tolerance. Nothing I like better than preaching and prating at those mothers I don't see as good as me. "

No. You just come on mumsnet and do it anonymously.

"I think putting a word in apostrophes suggests you view it with some suspicion." oh right, like you did with my name a few posts back??!

I put 'trained' in apostrophes to show that I was quoting a word you had used. Seriously OP if you read this much into your real life exchanges with your friend then no wonder you think she is critical of you. I don't know how much more clearly I can state that I'm not passing judgement on those who potty train at night early and yet you STILL read something sinister into it! It's beyond infuriating.

Belive me shaggers I am capable of this in real life. Happening at a bus stop near you 24/7. Took you that long to come up with that?

I would advise talking to her and saying very nicely that you think she bangs on a bit too much about this, and nobody can be right about everything.

However in RL I would probably just avoid her.

BoffinMum no truer word. And I think active avoidance might be a course of action to take.

Dear All,
Sorry if anything I have said has caused offence. I realise that this is a subject that provokes much feeling. If I have said anything that has grated or outright offended, my apologies. Sorry if I sounded defensive or insulting, it wasn't meant, but I am confused and would hope to save a friendship with getting stuck on the sandbar of parenting.

I have an earth mother, baby wearing, lentil weaver friend and she is very judgemental of other's parenting. It does grate.

And I don't mind her style of parenting at all; it's just the judging of others' styles that grates.

Children of mums like your friend usually end up spoilt brats, with no friends.

Apology accepted - and I apologise too if I've offended you, I honestly never meant to pass judgement on your parenting choices.

Lolaflores top response to shagmundfreud!

My twins were potty trained and dry at night by 2 & half too. We used the smartie reward way for the potty and dealt with a few accidents overnight when the pull ups were abandoned and all has been fine since. I hope they don't regress it would be a bit messy now they are 20.

I have seen parenting like you describe over the years. The children usually turn out fine in the end but the parents have a miserable time in the interim, and the kids always look far from happy too. My opinion is that parents and kids are happier when the parents act like parents and actually take charge.

Having said all that let the idiots get on with it, and choose more like minded friends. Ones you can have real conversations with maybe, rather than just acting as a sounding board for the latest martyr moan?

I think calling her an earth mother is a bit of an insult to earth mothers as she is not an earth mother, she is a silly mother!

Do you want to keep her friendship? If yes, put your own 'shame' to one side, accept that you are comfortable with the way you parent and brace yourself to support her and listen to her martyr moans.

If not, put a little distance between you.

And on the topic of dryness at night... I thought it was impossible to 'train' and it was a hormonal thing? Please set me straight if I am wrong.

hi loreflores, I feel so sorry for your friend's son, I know how difficult it can be when somebody you care very much about insists on continuing what is already proving disastrous with their children.

One of my friends made her child so fat she had problems walking, polite suggestions were ignored or she'd agree and then carry on overfeeding her crap, I feel so guilty about putting her feelings before the child's health, I'm having a three polite suggestions and then I'm telling the blunt truth for future situations. I don't understand why some people knowingly ruin their children's life through this type of 'loving' neglect, I often wonder if they secretly hate them.

Its not about lax/strict, earthy/formal but just whatever is right or wrong for a particular child. Most people just try every approach until they find the one which works best. Your friend isn't doing this, she is doing what makes her feel best regardless of the impact on the child. She also seems to be projecting her guilt on you by making you feel bad for your (working) choices. She knows shes wrong.

I find it rather disturbing that she took the child out of speech therapy because 'he didn't like it'. A responsible parent would look beyond the child's wants to ensure the needs are properly provided for. His behaviour will become worse if his ability to communicate is further stunted. School must be torture for the poor boy if he can't talk properly. Hence the after school tantrums.

Perhaps you can find as much information as possible on the importance of an ability to communicate and the effects an inability to communicate have on behaviour? Then give it to her. Ask her if its possible that the child is having a hard time at school because he can't talk properly and emphasise the emotional damage done by the frustration of feeling stupid in class, being isolated from everybody else and the danger of being targeted for bullying. You need to get it into her head that the damage being done by missing his speech therapy is far greater than his dislike of going.

Next time she denounces proper parenting as horrid, you should disagree, tell her that you believe that your job as a parent means preparing them properly for the world they are going into. They should be sent out brave, independent, speaking well, educated and properly socialised. Being a functional part of society is what makes us happy, not doing things which are detrimental to us even if it is what we feel like right now.

No need for argument to assert your point, just assert it strongly, politely and with a nice smile.

she's entitled to her opinion and her parenting style ad much as you are.you shouldn't see her style differing to yours as an attack, if it winds you up so much end the friendship

I am a bad mother, I have not 'tried' to get DS1 (4) 'dry at night' either. Left him in his pull-up (even though it was nearly always dry in the morning) until a few weeks ago he said he didn't want to wear it any more. So now he doesn't wear it, and the bed has remained dry.

Not everything needs to be parent-driven. But which things do and which things don't are different for different children, really. But it is annoying when people go on about what they did and how great their style of parenting is.
I know because I do it and I can see people getting annoyed

There is s world of difference between being child led and child ruled.

I have a very naughty theory that the reason that human children take so long to reach adult size is to make it possible for parents to physically over power them if necessary. Ie. if a five year old doesn't want to do SLT then it is possible to physically pick them up and take them by force.

Children need the adults around them to be in control. However there is a huge difference between being in control and controlling to the point of being abusive. A child needs an authoritative parent rather than a wet piece of lettice. It is possible to be into attachment parenting or Gina Ford and still be an authoritive parent. Children have basic needs and its about meeting those needs.

I have a very naughty theory that the reason that human children take so long to reach adult size is to make it possible for parents to physically over power them if necessary.

I'd bet money you are onto something there.

I'm a bit of an earth mother I suppose. DS is 11 months and I co-sleep and still partially breast feed (morning and before bed). I actually find the opposite. Everyone is constantly telling me that I should be thinking about giving up breast feeding now and that I should be putting him in his own cot. Eve when I tell them I'm happy with the way things are people still insist on telling me that I'm doing it all wrong.

I am totally bemused by this thread. I didn't realise you had to train your children to be dry at night! And you imply that her son's problems are a result of her being an "Earth Mother". Do you mean to say that he'd be alright now if only she'd given him a bottle of SMA every 4 hours from Day 1 and left him to cry it out in his cot all night???!!

If your friend is being a PITA then I sympathise but you are being wrong to dismiss the concept of "Earth Mother" which I take to mean someone who is very in tune with and responsive to her children's needs.

Some children are difficult and some are not - it is not always due to parenting but their own individual personalities and whether or not presumably they have any special needs.

Exactly, hardboiledpossum. I co-sleep and bf beyond the age of 1 although don't really class myself as an Earth Mother as I probably a bit shouty and am a WOHM. I love cosleeping and extended bf and yet other people presume to tell you that a child should be in it's own bed and that you should feed to a routine.

So much of this thread has been judgemental. The OP is talking about a mother who is clearly struggling with her son who has his own issues. We should be sympathising with and supporting her, not deriding her.

I notice that a lot of posters have been quick to slag off the mother and other "Earth Mother" types and yet no-one has raised the issue of how this boy's father impacts on him.

Some really thought-provoking comments on this thread.

"Its not about lax/strict, earthy/formal but just whatever is right or wrong for a particular child. Most people just try every approach until they find the one which works best. Your friend isn't doing this, she is doing what makes her feel best regardless of the impact on the child. She also seems to be projecting her guilt on you by making you feel bad for your (working) choices. She knows shes wrong."
Spot on, bubbledunk. Who amongst us has truly never had to change tack on anything? But of course, because we've changed, that opens us up to the false guilt of having done it 'wrong' in the first place - probably how she's managing to guilt you OP.

"I have a very naughty theory that the reason that human children take so long to reach adult size is to make it possible for parents to physically over power them if necessary. "
Yes you do have something there reallytired !

some people are really dramatic about child rearing , trauma indeed it doesnt seem to be working out for your friend , keep doing what you are doing and be pleased with your own parenting approach , Id let her slide as a friend because as the children get older she and he will really get on your wick

I notice that a lot of posters have been quick to slag off the mother and other "Earth Mother" types and yet no-one has raised the issue of how this boy's father impacts on him.

Its the partners of the Earth Mother types I know who I feel really sorry for, even more than the kids.

"Your friend isn't doing this, she is doing what makes her feel best regardless of the impact on the child. She also seems to be projecting her guilt on you by
making you feel bad for your (working) choices. She knows shes wrong."

I don't agree at all.

The way we parent reflects the people we are, as much as what we believe and what we've learned formally.

The OP's 'friend' (I use that word advisedly) is probably parenting in the only way she feels able to at present.

And the OP doesn't feel bad. She feels her parenting choices are the right ones, as evidenced by her comments on this thread.