to think that those Mnetters who think bootcuts are Mum jeans and we should only wear skinnies are either a size 10 or smaller, and/or 5ft 6 or taller?

[LittlePandaBear]

Surely people should wear what suit their figure? Skinnies only seem to look flattering on tall and/or slim people if you ask me! Aren't most women pear shapes with bigger hips and thighs and therefore would suit bootcuts much more?

Discuss.

yellowraincoat Exactly.

Hear, hear, Yellow.

btw...I might be tall and thin but skinnies look ridiculous on me. I have bootcuts and I'm proud. They can't make me look too mumsy as I'm constantly asked for ID at the supermarket of petrol station, much to my embarrassment (I'm 33).

Oh dear, that sounds like a stealth boast . It's not. I'm mortified being asked for ID.

thetasigmamum

Who are you calling fat? Who said that they were fat? Is any woman with more than a "shop standard" hip:waist ratio fat?

I have a healthy lifestyle, and a BMI of 22. I'm not fat. And in fact, my hip:waist ratio, which is thought to be just as important as weight in determining health, is more than optimal.

But you would say that because the skinny jeans in the shops don't fit me, that I should blame my body, and try to change it? Bugger off. Just because shops don't always sell things that fit my body, doesn't mean it's abnormal or wrong. On the contrary, plenty of women have a body shape like me.

I'm not defending the term "real women" at all, but I consider your comments to be just as derogatory.

panettone take them how you want. I am completely fed up of people claiming that if you are a small size you are not a real woman. I am fed up of people claiming that the only people who fit the clothes in high street stores such as M&S have no waist or hips and are basically square.

I notice that while you say you 'dont defend' the real woman comment you don't condemn it either.

I think they were aimed at me actually, but I agree with you. I'm not fat. I am 5'7" and weigh 9 st 7lb with a BMI of 20.8 and a waist to hip ratio of .70 which is apparently the optimum for health, but the wrong size for skinny jeans in my experience.

Er, your defence is that I didn't fully condemn the "real women" comment. Fine, I condemn it. Yes, I understand why that upsets you. Yes it's bad, and so is what you said. Hypocrite anyone? So you're fed up with hearing people using that term - does that make it ok to say that you're the one who is properly proportioned and imply that if others don't fit in store-bought clothes they they are out of proportion and should blame their bodies? Your comments are equally as disgusting. Don't try to justify what you say based on what others have done wrong.

Oh dear!

Calm down people! Let's talk about the animal hats

spiderslegs, jaja - I'd be wearing my levis and converse at work if i could get away with it....

Yeah she does look good, she's a size 16 but she's not over fat, she looks lovely in them. Trust me I have seen some sights and some people do not look good in them at all.

Just wear whatever makes you feel good and what is for your body type.

thetasigmamum - surely Bunbaker was saying that M&S make clothes to big for her shape...?

Talk about sensing something else being said and running with it, though!!

'too' big...

I have chunky legs but they are in proportion and are a nice shape, especially since they're quite long (34" inside leg). I would wear skinnies if I could find a pair that fit well both in the leg and the waist but with the ones that flatter my legs I get a muffin top and need to wear control underwear for them to pass as a semi-flattering outfit.

I prefer straight leg jeans with flat shoes or calf length boots or boot cut for ankle boots/high heels.

Are skinnies the same as drainpipes from many moons ago?

Drainpipes didn't seem to:
Make your feet look huge.
Make your hips look wide.
Make your bum look flat.
Give you a muffin no matter what your size.

Avoid.

I think the anti-bootcut thing stems from the fact that many people do wear them too short so that they swing around the ankles, and then they are unflattering. Otherwise, on the average female body, they are probably one of the more flattering styles.

Skinnies- some people look great in them, but far more people wear them than look good in them. However, it's not a simple thin/fat divide. There was a woman working in the jeans dept at Selfridges who must have been size 18/20 and was in skinnies and she was rocking that look. Maybe it's in the attitude?

Anyway, people shd just wear what suits them and not worry about the "mum's jeans" police.

I just live in fear of another anti-jeans era. Remember about 10 years ago when it was all about combats and jeans were a no-no. Those were dark times, dark times I tell you.

I think we all know living, breathing, walking, talking women are real women. It's pretty obvious that the term "real woman" is/was a backlash against the super skinny/heroin chic body type that was forced upon us for so many years where if you had an ounce of fat - even in the places we're supposed to have them like breasts or bums - you were decried as hideously overweight.

Isn't it really sad that we've never stopped to think about where all this crap comes from, before we're so quick to - and yes, it's us, not men - support it, subscribe to it, and condemn each other with it?

We're defending our own body types against each other, judging each other for being slim, or "real" with curves. It's such bollocks, I can't stand it.

It is the shops, the fashion industry, the media, that drip feed us this stuff....if there wasn't the market for it, it would die out. We perpetuate it. We feed it. We give it a home.

Men's clothes - trousers - have combinations of measurements, right? Leg length combined with waist size. And yet, we're lumbered with these meaningless numbers which don't even translate across all shops. Why the hell can't we have jeans in a combination of hip size and waist size?

I would die a very happy woman if I could walk into a shop and select a pair of jeans that had size twelve hips and size eight waist. Then I wouldn't have to cry in the changing rooms, a pair of jeans trapped around my mid-thigh area. Then I wouldn't have to wear belts and create a horrible, unsightly ripple just to get the waist to stop gaping.

Then I wouldn't have to bemoan other women's body shapes, who seem so much more desirable - to not have that ratio that actually, you know, is quite crazy in this land of Anglo-Saxons and is crazily desired on other continents. I should have been born in Brazil ;)

Then maybe - if things were made for us, and not forced upon us in this crazy way, and maybe if we stopped turning on each other because of the state of things, and stopped accepting this state of affairs, maybe we'd stop judging each other. Because it's not the six foot, size six girl that did this to me!

Great post bettybat.

I was really surprised last time I bought jeans for my dd from a proper store (as opposed to a superstore) that they did have waist and length measurements for their women's jeans. This is in Canada, which is not generally a forerunner on the fashion front, but it certainly made shopping a great deal quicker.

When we go with dh he tends to just ask an assistant for everything they have in his size (he is very tall but quite thin, and there isn't usually much choice).

I like efficient clothes shopping!

Anyone who is now wondering "But what does suit me? How do I know if I am wearing bootcuts in a mumsy way?" should head over to Dressipi, put in their measurements, and get a personal (personal by a computer, but still specific to you) set of shape recommendations.

Brilliantly put, bettybat.

All "proper" jeans for women do come in waist and length measurements (eg those by denim specialists). It's only chain store jeans that come in dress sizes.

Also, whilst I agree with bettybat to an extent, men also do tend to just wear what suits them rather than thinking they must fit their arses into some skinny leg twisted seam jeans just because it's the fashion

eg my DH is no way ever going to fit into the slim leg trousers in Paul Smith/FC etc even if they are theoretically the right waist/length combo as his thighs are too chunky. But he's not going to cry over it. He'll just buy something in a more relaxed fit.