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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to be surpised at an almost 7 year old still being breastfed?

817 replies

Toomanycuppas · 13/01/2012 02:50

Met up for lunch with friends we rarely see last week and was not aware she was still b/f. Almost 7 year old came running back from the park, went to the mum and lifted her top up and she said "no, it's not an appropriate time for that".

I can understand that it's normal for the child but wouldn't they be teased by school friends if it's asked for/done in public?

OP posts:
Whatmeworry · 16/01/2012 11:19

Whatmeworry. - "pray tell" sarcastic and condescending much?? I think women to do continue to bfees often have educated themselves on benefits. I know I did. And yes the biological age of weaning is 6/7.

How about proving the point then, instead of accusing me of faux rudeness...or I may just begin to suspect its a load of unprovable self serving bollocks.

It comes from reading books on anthropology.

Oh, me too...so I await the 6/7 year proof with eager anticipation therefore.

choceyes · 16/01/2012 11:27

I hope you have read the stuff about tooth erosion and brush your childrens teeth after their last feed...

This is from Kellymom:

Is Breastfeeding Linked to Tooth Decay?
By Kelly Bonyata, BS, IBCLC

It's often said that breastfeeding (particularly while lying down at night) will cause tooth decay, just like letting a baby sleep with a bottle of milk can cause "baby bottle mouth." Essentially, a valid link has not been made between nursing (nighttime or otherwise) and cavities.

Before the use of the baby bottle, dental decay in baby teeth was rare. Two dentists, Dr. Brian Palmer and Dr. Harold Torney, have done extensive research on human skulls (from 500-1000 years ago) in their study of tooth decay in children. Of course these children were breastfed, probably for an extended length of time. Their research has led them to conclude that breastfeeding does not cause tooth decay.

One of the reasons for nighttime bottles causing tooth decay is the pooling of the liquid in baby's mouth (where the milk/juice bathes baby's teeth for long periods of time). Breastmilk is not thought to pool in the baby's mouth in the same way as bottled milk because the milk doesn't flow unless the baby is actively sucking. Also, milk from the breast enters the baby's mouth behind the teeth. If the baby is actively sucking then he is also swallowing, so pooling breast milk in the baby's mouth appears not to be an issue.

A bacteria (present in plaque) called strep mutans is the cause of tooth decay. These bacteria use food sugars to produce acid - this acid directly causes the decay. Strep mutans thrives in a combination of sugars, low amounts of saliva and a low ph-level in the saliva. A portion of the population (around 20%) is thought to have increased levels of this high acid producing bacteria, putting them at higher risk for developing dental decay. After your baby gets teeth, he can get this bacteria through saliva to saliva contact from mother (or other caregiver) to baby. To help prevent transfer of this bacteria to baby, avoid any saliva to saliva contact such as sharing spoons & cups, wet kisses on the mouth, chewing food for baby, or putting baby's pacifier in your mouth. On the other hand, one study indicates that children of moms with high levels of strep mutans may actually have some protection (immunization) from decay through frequent saliva to saliva contact in the months before baby's teeth erupt.

Per Brian Palmer, "Human milk alone does not cause dental caries. Infants exclusively breastfed are not immune to decay due to other factors that impact the infant's risk for tooth decay. Decay causing bacteria (streptococcus mutans) is transmitted to the infant by way of parents, caregivers, and others" (Palmer 2002).

Up until recently, the only studies that had been done were on the effects of lactose (milk sugar, which breastmilk does contain) on teeth, not the effects of complete breastmilk with all its components. Breastmilk also contains lactoferrin, a component in breastmilk that actually kills strep mutans (the bacteria that causes tooth decay). According to a recent article in the March/April 1999 issue of Pediatric Dentistry, "It is concluded that human breast milk is not cariogenic." This study utilized extracted teeth to obtain most of its results and studied children only for determining the pH changes in dental plaque (Erickson 1999). A Finnish study could not find any correlation between caries and breastfeeding among children who were breastfed longer (up to 34 months) (Alaluusua 1990). Valaitis et al concluded, "In a systematic review of the research on early childhood caries, methodology, variables, definitions, and risk factors have not been consistently evaluated. There is not a constant or strong relationship between breastfeeding and the development of dental caries. There is no right time to stop breastfeeding, and mothers should be encouraged to breastfeed as long as they wish." (Valaitis 2000).

In a study done by Dr. Torney, no correlation was found between early onset (< 2 yrs) dental caries and breastfeeding patterns such as frequent night feeds, feeding to sleep, etc. He is convinced that under normal circumstances, the antibodies in breastmilk counteract the bacteria in the mouth that cause decay. However, if there are small defects in the enamel, the teeth become more vulnerable and the protective effect of breastmilk is not enough to counteract the combined effect of the bacteria and the sugars in the milk. Enamel defects occur when the first teeth are forming in utero. His explanation is based on quite a large study of long-term breastfed children with and without caries.

According to this research, a baby who is exclusively breastfed (no supplemental bottles, juice, or solids) will not have decay unless he is genetically predisposed, i.e.. soft or no enamel. In a baby who does have a genetic problem, weaning will not slow down the rate of decay and may speed it up due to lack of lactoferrin.

Much research indicates that it's the other foods in baby's diet (rather than breastmilk) that tend to be the main problem when it comes to tooth decay. The 1999 Erickson study (in which healthy teeth were immersed in different solutions) indicated that breastmilk alone was practically identical to water and did not cause tooth decay - another experiment even indicated that the teeth became stronger when immersed in breastmilk. However, when a small amount of sugar was added to the breastmilk, the mixture was worse than a sugar solution when it came to causing tooth decay. This study emphasizes the importance of tooth brushing and good dental hygiene.

A study by Dr. Norman Tinanoff showed that breastmilk in itself does not give rise to cavities as much as was previously thought. Dr. Tinanoff believes that the milk proteins in breastmilk protect the enamel on the teeth, and that the antibacterial qualities in breastmilk stop the bacteria from using the lactose in breastmilk in the same way as regular sugar. This dentist also showed that 5 minutes of breastfeeding lowered the pH-level only slightly more than rinsing the mouth with a little water.

Once your baby gets teeth, it's a good idea to brush your child's teeth twice daily and perhaps give him a sip of water after meals to wash food particles away. Also, don't allow baby to carry a cup or a bottle around during the day. This results in a constant "bathing" of baby's teeth with whatever he's drinking. Decay is directly related to the amount of contact time of a sugary substance with the teeth. Avoid too many sugary, sticky foods as well, and talk to your dentist about the amount of fluoride in your drinking water. You can read more about fluoride supplements for babies here: Does My Baby Need Vitamins?

choceyes · 16/01/2012 11:28

whatmeworry - you answer doesnt' even make sense to me.

runningwilde · 16/01/2012 11:59

Nannyplum I was merely stating a fact that women with one breast can feed - especially if she was well enough to get pregnant and go through pregnancy - and anyhow your example really has nothing to do with this thread does it
And your 'yuk' comment showed nothing but ignorance and immaturity

Are you so insecure that you cannot accept that breastmilk is almost always the best option for babies (except in rare cases involving alllergies)

You seem to desperately want to clutch at straws to make yourself feel better which is quite silly really.

And I see another insecure poster - whatmeworry - is still posting nonsensical rubbish Hmm

runningwilde · 16/01/2012 12:04

Spendit - zero benefits? What a stupid and incorrect comment to make - you really are desperate arent you?!

birdsofshoreandsea · 16/01/2012 12:14

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

WoTmania · 16/01/2012 12:17

Whatmeworry - read the links provided for your 'proof'. Children can, and do, self-wean, my DSs did, DD will one day one anthropolgist in particular (Kathy Dettwyler) has done extensive research into this. why ask for proof when you won't bother reading it?

spenditwisely · 16/01/2012 12:34

Adopted
1983
Revised
1990, 1994, 2000
The American Academy of Pediatric Dentistry (AAPD)
endorses the American Academy of Pediatrics? (AAP) policy
statement on breast-feeding and the use of human milk.
1
The AAP statement concludes that ?breast-feeding ensures
the best possible health as well as the best development and
psychosocial outcomes for the infant.?
The potential for early childhood caries exists for the
breast-fed child and is related to the extended and repetitive feeding times with prolonged exposure of teeth to
fermentable carbohydrate without appropriate oral hygiene measures.

Whatmeworry · 16/01/2012 12:40

Whatmeworry - read the links provided for your 'proof'. Children can, and do, self-wean, my DSs did, DD will one day one anthropolgist in particular (Kathy Dettwyler) has done extensive research into this. why ask for proof when you won't bother reading it?

I'm not arguing children can't self wean, I'm questioning 6/7 years as the claimed natural historical age of weaning in human society. Different things entirely.

Btw Dettwyler was debunked some time ago. Her methodology was to take various average metrics from various mammal groups (of massively different metabolisms, sizes, diets to humans) and apply them pro rata to humans. Her approach doesn't even predict the different weaning ages of the various primates accurately, so applying it to humans is massively dumb risky.

Whatmeworry · 16/01/2012 12:47

And I see another insecure poster - whatmeworry - is still posting nonsensical rubbish

Runningwilde, are you capable of responding to people you disagree with without accusing them all of being (and I quote):

Insecure, Stupid, Desperate, Incorrect, Nonsensical, Shite, Silly, Ignorant, Immature, Rubbish (etc etc.).

Methinks you protest too much....

spenditwisely · 16/01/2012 12:56

I'm not insecure I'm genuinely interested in the wellbeing of children and I don't think children that are over-protected are going to suffer. As we have agreed that breastmilk is not a nuturitional necessity after a good diet is achieved and that it's not good for the teeth last thing at night, the only reason we are extended breastfeeding is... because the child hasn't 'self-weaned'.

I'd love to understand why the weaning age has to be decided by the child.

birdsofshoreandsea · 16/01/2012 13:02

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

choceyes · 16/01/2012 13:17

Indeed birdsofshoreandsea. Well said.

WoTmania · 16/01/2012 13:25

spenditwisely - why not let the child decide though? Why is it such a problem to you that other people do things differently in a way that works for them and their families?

whatmeworry - she hasn't been 'debunked' as you put it. There are however some who disagree with her.

This is all getting really boring TBH - a load of people say their gut instinct is 'yuk' because it's 'innapropriate' and 'disgusting' and 'stopping children from being independent' and they wouldn't want to do it. Another lot of posters, who have BF beyond the norm and often know other people who have too, say 'in our experience this isn't the case, our children are quite independent, eat a varied diet and will self wean when they are ready' just to be told 'well, clrealy you are wrong whatever your experience is because my opinion trumps anything oyu can say' and it goes round in circles.

runningwilde · 16/01/2012 13:28

Well said birds

Whatmeworry lovey pmsl at your analysis as practically everything you have said is rubbish

As someone who put in the time and perseverance to bf my children and as an active bf supporter who delights in all the benefits of breastmilk I am doing fabbbbbb

runningwilde · 16/01/2012 13:31

Wotomania - the problem is that for some odd reason some women on here can't handle reading that. Some of the most secure children I know were/are extended bf and there are so many emotional as well as nutritional benefits to bf

knittedbreast · 16/01/2012 13:37

just because something isnt required we just stop? so mum and child enjoy but they have to stop or should do but it is no longer required?

Thats really sad.

WoTmania · 16/01/2012 13:46

running - I find it quite sad that they can't just leave people alone to do what works for them and their family/DC. Particularly those children who need that extra bit of security and comfort til they are a little older than other children.

Babieseverywhere · 16/01/2012 14:08

Yes, I agree this thread has run it's course. Turning very circular now.

TBH one side will continue to write heartfelt posts full of real life experience backed up with relevant research and the other side will says 'yuck'...just laughable really and a bit boring..

Off to cuddle my baby much more worthwhile use of my time.

MamaMaiasaura · 16/01/2012 14:40

I agree with thread running course as really sad some posters aren't interested I actual experiences of mothers who have bfed but rather try and imply its disgusting a wrong.

And re tooth decay none of my children have any fillings and the eldest is 12 years.

Whatmeworry · 16/01/2012 14:47

Another lot of posters, who have BF beyond the norm and often know other people who have too, say 'in our experience this isn't the case, our children are quite independent, eat a varied diet and will self wean when they are ready' just to be told 'well, clrealy you are wrong whatever your experience is because my opinion trumps anything oyu can say' and it goes round in circles.

I think you will find that most people would not mind that at all.

Where it goes pear shaped is when they then try and claim they in some way have had better/smarter/more secure/healther/etc etc babies than other people who followed other options, and point to agenda-loaded websites that cross refer to the same spurious source "data" to back themselves up.

That is when people, who have typically done their own research and reached their own conclusions, start to test these spurious assumptions, and they are found to be way overoptimistic inconclusive and wanting.

WoTmania · 16/01/2012 15:00

Whatme - Maybe you haven't been reading the same thread as me. I have read various posts saying it's wrong, perverted, disgusting and that the children will be stunted and never become independent, that it is for the mother's benefit more than the child's etc I and others have posted to say actually that's not our experience - no one has said their DC are 'better/smarter/more secure/healther/etc etc ' just that their children are secure, happy and independent individuals but not more so than anyone else's

BertieBotts · 16/01/2012 15:02

Nobody has said that at all on this thread.

Anyway, I'm out too, for good this time :)

MamaMaiasaura · 16/01/2012 15:04

And that is the crux for you whatmeworry. You are looking for evidence to disprove that it is beneficial in order to make you feel better about your choices. Thing is no one here was judging you at all, you did the judging and the many posts trying to tell bfing for a long time has no benefits to make yourself feel better. We do our best with what we know and also what we are able. I think if a mum can breastfeed then great, but if she can't it doesn't make her a shot parent. By the same token breastfeeding for as long as a child wants doesn't make a superior parent or child. However the facts are that it is beneficial and not disgusting to bfeed as long as child wants.

MamaMaiasaura · 16/01/2012 15:05

Shit not shot

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