To think that the West is seriously fucked up on the bosom front?

[Hullygully]

Bags of poison sewn into our infant feeding parts.

How fucked up is that?

I've wondered about the language - chubby or even fat women are invariably described as "curvy". Many are not, and it must make them feel very conscious of that.

The slim hour glass figure does happen naturally, but not with breasts like honeydew melons.

YANBU. I hate hate hate that now you have all these adverts on the flipping tube for breast implants, like you're going in to have your hair coloured or something. It's MAJOR SURGERY that can PUT YOUR LIFE IN DANGER.

It's YOU Abs. No one wants to talk to you.

Soz.

Hully... I happen to agree that implant surgery has messed up the heads of many young girls. I think though that you ought to clarify your OP, perhaps, because what you're saying is that implants=fucked up. It's nothing to do with feeding, it's just a woman's body part and many women feel very sensitive and self-concious about their decision to have implants.

The other comment from another poster "flex their feminist muscles", not nice at all. There's a spate of this sort of thread. Feminist issues being posted on AIBU hoping for a bunfight rabid discussion. It's not honest.

I really think that this is one of those topics that if you have no personal experience of implants and what drives people to have them, you really can't comment except in the shallowest of terms.

If the intention was a discussion, great, but the sneeriness is there already. Can't women ever stop doing that to each other? :(

Most of the men i know prefer natural anyway. So unless they are doing for their own benefit and not to look good its kind of pointless

See, I don't see sneering, not at individuals. Indeed, a lot of people have gone out of their way to say: not those on medical/psychological grounds etc.

And I do think what my OP says: here in the West (and in other parts of the world as pointed out) our relationship to our bodies has been fucked up by the meedja/porn etc etc to such an extent that women have these bags of silicon sewn into the parts of the body that are designed for infant feeding (whether or not they are used thus), and that a terrifying nuymber of these bags are posionous and potentially fatal.

Some people choose to smoke, it doesn't stop fags causing cancer.

Sorry to quote Loose Women again ( I was poorly yesterday and spent a lot of it watching cap telly on the sofa!) but there was an actress on there who said she had to loose weight as she left the maternity ward in her maternity jeans - one of the other women looked at her and said "Er yeah, that is totally normal!' This odd image that women have to look perfect even after giving birth is crazy. Of COURSE boobs are going to look different after breast feeding etc.

There isn't a single woman (or man) who has had plastic surgery without medical and/or psychological grounds. I would say that quite categorically. Even those who are on the endless conveyor belt of seemingly pointless surgery.

I know you're not being sneery, Hully, but the floodgates have opened to facilitate it from others who seem quite eager.

I've had a breast reduction, which was a bit different - nothing being inserted into my body - but I can fully understand the anguish from people who don't feel happy with their bodies for whatever reason and choose surgery as the ultimate solution.

You know, you're right Lying. Good point.

But it still remains true that it is our culture that creates those grounds, and that is what we are bemoaning.

Absolutely, Hully. I don't know when and where it started but it's insidious. I work in an engineering field and worry that so many young people see being a 'celeb' as a viable career option rather than one of the many mainstream careers. That seems to happen at about the same time as the magazine business 'hotted up'. I too despair of it. :(

I don't think breasts do have to look different after breastfeeding. I spent six years being pregnant and breastfeeding. My breasts looked the same afterwards. They have started sagging now, ten years after stopping breastfeeding. I assume this is because I am in my thirties and that happens to a lot of women in their thirties due to the ageing process.

Miranda Kerr is still modelling bras for Victoria's Secrets, and breastfeeding her baby in the workplace. Breasts do change, and some women's will change after breastfeeding or pregnancy, but it isn't true for everyone.

I also agree with you hully.

clothes lots of people's don't though and it is to be expected IF they do, the same as body shapes change for lots of people.

Yes, VRH, and in some ways that makes it strange that people have surgery so young. Their bodies are going to change anyway as they get older and they may well have ended up with larger or smaller breasts or breasts they were happier with the shape of as their bodies changed naturally over time.

That particularly concerns me clothes as I was not well endowed at all as a late teen but now am huge is the boob department These young things that have breast implants could very well change change shape later on.

I DO realise that 'young things' make me sound patronising and like an old lady

please can I say to folk that it's pg that changes boobs not bf

eye thenk ewe

Yy Valium
My boobs kept growing till my mid- twenties at least. I've been pregnant or breastfeeding since 28 so I've no idea what they'll be like once that's behind me. I don't think people should be allowed to do it till a bit later, certainly not in teens as so much can change (physically and emotionally)

As Abs said, It's major surgery.
Why would anyone put themselves through that for vanities sake?
Before my mastectomy, I liked my boobs, they were small but fitted in with my frame.
Fake boobs just look totally unnatural, but every a- z list sleb has them, it makes me , but I often wonder if that is down to my own personal experience.

I agree that the normalisation of cosmetic surgery (plus Brazilians etc) is part of the pornification of culture and inherently bonkers. It is all wrong that women are imagining a perfect female design and having themselves altered to fit.

However,it is miserable to be a long way from the norm (in either direction in this context) and I can understand why people have surgery to be "normal" as opposed to perfect. I am 30GG and have always absolutely loathed my breasts. I'm old and saggy all over now so it matters less; but when I was younger, men would assume that they automatically designated one as some sort of sex kitten and other women/the whole of the fashion industry would sneer and think them rather ugly, inelegant and vulgar. Getting clothes to fit has always been a nightmare. Running, no matter how strapped up they are, is out of the question.

Had a reduction been cheaper, less risky and less time consuming (how does anyone manage the recovery time away from the rest of their lives?) and had it not involved a loss of sensation and perhaps a future inability to breast feed, I may well have had it done. I don't think that having this surgery necessarily makes one vain or stupid.

Having said that I understand why people have it done to be nearer the "norm" I think that there is a danger that the "norm" is also commercially and socially engineered- hence the "clamshell design" genitalia.

It's the modern world innit. I don't think you can look at boob jobs in isolation.

Women and men have been doing stupid things to themselves in the name of 'beauty' and in attempt to appear a better mate for thousands of years. From African women with extended necks, to Japanese women with bound feet, to 17thC French dandies putting lead paint on their faces or the old Prince Albert ( ouch ) .

Modern technology and medical practice mean it's within many peoples reach to have cosmetic surgery now. It might be major surgery, but it's portrayed as a fairly normal thing to do these days. Nobody is really shocked to hear so-and-so has had a boob job any more than hearing a footballer has been sleeping with Escort girls or his brother's wife.

I recently saw a teen magazine in a friends house that his 12 year old daughter had. And I was truly shocked by what it was advocating. It was all about make up, how to get a boyfriend, more make up tips, glam movie starts, more make up tips etc etc . His daughter emerged with a face pack on ffs. She's 12 !!!!

We live in a world of superficiality. It's all surface quality there is no depth. And this is particularly true of the west. Everything / one is a commodity now.

One thing that's bothered me recently is the realization that for female actors, it's essential to do photo shoots in skimpy under wear or dressed like a hooker. It's depressing.

If someone want to have a boob job, it is of course their business not mine.

But I hate the over inflated self entitled glamour model types getting air time, the blokey Zoo magazine culture, the 50' billboard adverts of women in their M&S sexy underwear......... The falsity of modern life... aghhh....grrrr.. awoooooooooo.

< shuffles back off to hermit cave deep in the woods >

I only clicked to defend the Norkage of Devon and Cornwall.