To think that the West is seriously fucked up on the bosom front?

[Hullygully]

Bags of poison sewn into our infant feeding parts.

How fucked up is that?

But but but... [worried] any time I've let anyone have a look at the undercarriage, they've been so pathetically grateful to get a shag that they've practically fallen to the floor in worship.

What the hell kind of person, when presented with genitalia of someone you presumably like at least a bit, would ridicule or compare? Does this really happen? OMFG I don't want to live here any more.

That was supposed to be not a link.. Ooops.

Just clicked link to make sure it didn't link to my desktop [numpty]

yy

LeQ, I agree, 'real men' don't want fake boobs. Because their sexual conditioning as young men was experienced around 'real women'. Naked women pre-implants in the paper, a flash of muff on channel 4... teenage boys are watching waxed, implanted, hardcore porn on the internet. I think that they do want, and expect, girls to conform to this bullshit ideal.

I think this is the big problem.

MOST normal men/boys dont care and would be grateful for a lovely natural girlfriend.

However the message thats going out is that this isnt true, that What Men Want is the barbie doll (and the lie that young women are doing it for themselves - it makes them feel good about themselves BECAUSE they are getting attention)

The younger boys and girls seem to have bought the lie, and us old fuddies telling them different doesnt seem to be going in, we're to old, saggy hairy and scary, and we surely dont have any sex, do we???

So, with the help of porn and the media images, and an awful lot of peer pressure bravado, they seem to be heading towards plastic-heaven

again, Im not talking about reconstructive surgery or people who have had natural looking surgery for health or psychological reasons

Shagmund that is a great site. Is there a labia one?

who was it (someone famous from a long time ago) who had a freak out and couldnt cope with his wife having pubic hair, because at that time all paintings of nudes/sculptures had this blank area in the genital region.
It was a writer or someone...........
think he was traumatised by it and horrified.

guess its come full circle!

John Ruskin

Someone beginning with R

That's the chap!

fucking "Zoo" and "Nuts" have a lot to answer for

Shocking thought from a previous poster but entirely imaginable. How long before our "frilly bits" are deemed unacceptable and full circumcision becomes something to aspire to? Could happen.

yup, thats him. Really into victorian porn, but couldnt make it with a real woman.....
Thats where we are heading.
we need a bunch like the pre-raphaelites to come and knock some sense into these idiots. Didnt Ruskin's wife run off with Millais. They appreciate women for their beauty and set them free from their corsets.....

I disagree with the op the West isn't "seriously fucked up on the bosum front" it's seriously fucked up on how we raise our girls and where they get their self esteem from.

So much self esteem hinging on any aspect of appearance is going to end badly.

I'm raising 2 beautiful girls who are below average height for instance- they don't have abnormal growth they are just short. I think I'm doing well and the eldest is a fabulous happy girl who likes the way she looks. I'm trying to bring the youngest up the same way. THey could so easily get hooked on the fact they are short though and it isn't a thing they can change!

THe "meeja" have so much to do with this ! fear. Where are the flat chested role models - apart from the franky anorexic looking ones, where are the 5 foot nothing curvy girlies? Not on TV that's for sure.

REmember the kerfuffle re the Cbeebies lady with the missing hand?

The chilling thing about the circumcision route is that it would complete the 'woman as an instrument of men's sexual needs' by making her compliant but non-demanding. Hard to have sexual satisfaction with no sensations in the vulva or breasts (only leaves the mind and internal regions....)
nice.....

Perhaps, I'm very lucky, but having BF DD2 for a great many years my breasts are only very slightly saggy.
And I suspect being 44 is far more to blame!

There was a very interesting - and depressing - section on Thinking Allowed about the rise of cosmetic tourism & also interesting stuff on the views of young women who see breast augmentation as inline with spa/beauty treatments www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0196rp1 if anyone wants a listen

As with everything it is a very personal decision, a couple of my friends do have implants but I know how deeply unhappy there where before.
Ive solved my flat boob problem.. chicken fillets £4 in primark! job done!

oh I heard a bit of that, I'll listen to the rest later. Thanks.

I do remember being at the Taj Mahal a few years ago and seeing two middle aged English women with seriously bashed up faces. I thoguht they were DV victims on holiday until dh said they were much more likely to be surgery tourists.

Yes, NT. Living women as sex-dolls. I've never understood people forsaking nipple sensation or basic functionality for aesthetics.

Sometimes I think that male genitalia look rather less than pleasing. Even men agree on this point, especially in warm weather when things hang low, discoloured and wrinkled. There isn't an entire industry based around correcting this natural phenomenon though is there? And men are not clamouring for one.

I have a lot more empathy with someone who has a chest like an ironing board opting to implant up to a b or c cup than I have with someone who starts out as a standard size and wants some FF type numbers.

I hope this whole debacle calls a halt to it being just so normal for women to mutilate themselves for no reason. The next problem is apparently going to be dermal fillers. Don't start me on that one.

What was really depressing I thought Hully was that the younger women weren't interested in just havig bigger natural looking breasts - they wanted fake round breasts so that people could see that they'd spent their money there - so that fake breasts had become a status symbol/more pleasing aesthetic than real ones.

I find it strange that women with small breasts feel so bad about them. As others have said, Kate Moss has really small breasts and loads of people fancy her/find her attractive. Women with boyish figures look great in my opinion - and I know a lot of people who feel the same.

yes, that is REALLY hideous.

I had a mastectomy 8 years ago, and at the time there wasn't a surgeon who did reconstructions.
But I loathed the chicken fillet I had to stick in my bra with the special pocket.
Six months later they hired a surgeon who specialised in reconstructions and I put myself on the waiting list.
I had a saline implant, and I felt so much more confident.
They did offer, under the NHS, to do my other breast to match them up if I wanted and I did think about, but then I thought no, just be grateful for being alive.
My implanted one now looks better than the other one as, sadly, due to age and gravity I'm drooping and they don't match at all but I still wouldn't have it done.
I do get annoyed when I see how boob jobs are the norm for so many women,
breasts come in all shapes and sizes, live with it.