To think that the West is seriously fucked up on the bosom front?

[Hullygully]

Bags of poison sewn into our infant feeding parts.

How fucked up is that?

I was just extending it into moral issues. Whether you call vanity a sin or not it is a pretty selfish act to spend hours preening yourself in front of a mirror.

There are variosu argument to all this. We all know women are about 1000 times more affected by these things than men and it's a sexim issue.

Secondly vanity itself is a huge waste of time and not morally good.

On the other hand using your sexual capital of which women have more than men does help some women marry a rich husband or do better in their work in many jobs. It is perfectly lawful in the UK to hire the pretty slim woman over the fat ugly one assuming their qualifications are the same. Did my daughter 1 get her job because of her qualifications and brains (obviously yes) but was it also because she's blonde etc and has good personal skills? Certainly that too might have helped. I wouldn't however say that paying for her blonde highlights was a better investment than in say 15 years of school and university fees for her. Is her genetic inheritance of my looks as useful to her? Who knows but you certainly tend to do better if you look good.

If bonsoir who I think said on another thread is reasonably slim and wears little red shorts etc were she 28 stone and with facial defects would she have secured her reasonably well off (I'm assuming he is) partner? I'm not sure breasts are the key to most of this but they can be park of a package. No one has ever objected to mine. They might at times feel a physical nuisance and I doubt they secure most of my work but they have not been a hindrance. I don't think I'll have them hacked off.

LOL Xenia, I think not having lots of body hang-ups was probably quite a key driver in nabbing my DP . No falsies and lots of fun with clothes!

I think Xenia is right. Vanity is a huge waste of time, and particularly damaging for women, who could be doing much better things with their time. And being suckers for the marketing industry is just daft.

Indeed but I bet you have tolerated someone who is fatter and doesn't look as good in return for money in a sense. Anyway I try not to personalise threads so I will shut up and as I'm single (although that can be a pretty nice way to be too) I may not be qualified to comment on marriage threads although I suppose this is not one of those.

My DP is very good-looking, athletic, clever and personable, and has great genes (tried and tested on the DSSs) . But these things are by the by - it's a meeting of minds, more than anything else!

Okay, that's fine Sounds lovely.

Indeed but I bet you have tolerated someone who is fatter and doesn't look as good in return for money in a sense

I can't BELIEVE you typed that.

And Bonsoir bigging up her dh.

lolololololol

Glad to hear no facial defects, Bonsoir

It's making me laugh too, particularly as I'm proved wrong. I had a vision of a fattish French man in a jumper pushed out by a big tummy for some reason who was a bit sexist. I often wrong about things so that's fine and we do have to admit that Frenchmen tend to dress a lot better than British so I was highly likely to be wrong anyway. Anyway I don't tend to write personal things so I'll shut up.

Oh please don't. Please tell us more things you imagine.

Xenia, does that mean that French men are more vain than British men and you approve?

The tendency to hire tall more attractive people over shorter and less attractive people spans the sexes, it's not just women who are judged.

I operate in the real world and choose to make myself look as nice as I can without taking more than 10 minutes to pop the slap on in the morning. It would be silly not to because we have to sell ourselves all the time in the working consultancy environment.

Obviously I am as shallow as shallow can be and only hold my job down becuase of my looks. Or maybe I am pretty drop dead gorgeous and good at my job? Yes, that's it.

We were having lunch at the Café de Flore last weekend and Inès de la Fressange and Denis Olivennes were at the next table. I think they fit Xenia's stereotype more than my DP and I do . Denis O has three mini-me sons and Inès de la F has two mini-me daughters, so the effect is somewhat exaggerated!

If I knew what PARD was, I'd consider it

My DD's see me naked frequently & after 4.5 years of BF my boobs have a slight droop - I don't think it will even cross their minds that I have implants. But then they are normal size (34c which is apparently the correct size for my rib cage/breast wall). My 8 yr old DD's current concern is that she will grow pubic hair when she is older as she is somewhat horrified at mine, of which there is an abundance

But, back to the question, yes I'd tell them & explain why.

If you read the thread you will see that PARD was explained not that long ago.

P polite
A and
R reasonable
D discourse

thanks for your help

The pleasure is all mine

Personally, I would really struggle to say that to my DD; that I had had my boobs changed because the ones I had weren't good enough :( I don't know how you can phrase it in a way that makes it sound ok.

For those asking about breastfeeding and silicone implants - this may be of interest to you:
www.breastfeedingnetwork.org.uk/pdfs/dibm/Silcone_Implants_and_Breastfeeding_January_2012.pdf

I have a pet theory about all this implant stuff. I think it's easier to explain the desire for women to have / to be a woman who has larger boobs than it is to explain the desire, say , for no pubic hair. Of course the vicious cycle of what is in the media therefore what is considered "normal" also has a lot to answer for, but see what you think of my theory...

I am relatively modest chested, except when I was bf my son when i was a good 2 sizes larger and my boobs were more of an "implant" shape (until i stopped feeding when they went all saggy but that's how it works). If you are a hetrosexual male of breeding age looking for a mate, you tend to be attracted to signs of fertility - i.e. healthy skin / hair (indicating no disease, well fed), a good waist-hip ratio (indicating not currently pg and correlated with higher fertility rates) etc. Well, a woman who is bf an older child has proved she is fertile. She is presumably able to produce milk for a child as she is bf currently. And she is less likely to be currently pg than the average neolithic woman about town. She is probably still fertile if she has a young infant in toe. And if she is behaving in a provocative way (i.e. she is waving her boobs in your face, Jordan style) then maybe her baby's father has been eaten by sabretooth tigres / fallen off a cliff / died of the plague and she's available for breeding?

Can you feel your caveman genes crying out "good bet" yet?

Similarly I think the start of the craze for removing leg hair is about higher oestrogen and lower testoesterone (or is it androgen?) and displaying more feminine body hair patterns - which then gets completely exaggerated when no body hair becomes percieved as "normal".

Absolutely cannot justify the trend to removing pubic hair on these grounds though - how does that work?! Mmh she is not yet past puberty, and will be so inexperienced our offspring will likely die. yeah great bet.

Just a theory anyway - what do you think?

Women have waxed their pubic hair in lots of cultures across time/geography and have enhanced their breasts in myriad ways. Breast implant surgery is a newer, more extreme version of something that has been going on for centuries.

I was the one who mentioned foot binding in China. It is virtually always the women suffering in all this because they are economically or otherwise dependent on men or in a culture where physical strength wins out. As long as girls pick low paid careers and kow tow to richer men in marriage and earn pin money things will remain as they are.

michaelas, my theory on pubic hair removal has more to do with not coming up from oral sex with a teethful of pubes than men subconsciously wanting pre-pubescent girls.

I hear a lot of guys shave their balls these days. I suspect it's more to do with angling for a tea-bagging than trying to emulate a child.