To think that the West is seriously fucked up on the bosom front?

[Hullygully]

Bags of poison sewn into our infant feeding parts.

How fucked up is that?

perception not every person, all the time.

But I have experienced it - I've walked past fellow musicians in the street, and they haven't recognised me. Same clothes, same lack of makeup etc. Just add in 3 kids. Recognition is accompanied by "YOU have kids????"

hully :o

secure, happy women with everything have BA surgery

Oxymoron, Len.

I think the point is that if you do have it, then you aren't secure and happy with everything. QED.

toptramp - about the dating scene:
You don't have to compete with the young'uns. You are in a different market I reckon, if you are a bit older.
You just have different things to offer: a considered opinion, a sense of perspective, accompanied one would hope by a sense of humour, a full life of your own, your own money, a million stories, sexual expertise...!
If a man in his 30's or 40's chooses a young girl with perky tits over all that then I would say he is not up to much.

I don't think it's true that you necessarily become invisible when you have children.

Yes.

But the want part means there is a lack of happiness and security.

'I think the point is that if you do have it, then you aren't secure and happy with everything. QED.'

How could you know that? You only know the way that you yourself think. I can understand some of your arguments about surgery but I do think it's arrogant to make sweeping generalisations about people's state of mind.

But think about it perception.

Why would you have elective surgery UNLESS you felt unhappy/lacking?

It odesn't make sense.

I wonder why the desire for perfect tits seems to trump all other aesthetic wants. Many women seem to be able to be OK with a flabby stomach, fat thighs or whatever, but when it comes to tits it just matters so much.
Why is this?

I don't mean to arrogant, btw, I am trying to think my way through it all.

It just seems to me logical that want = a perceived lack

Good point Northern.

I used to want implants, i have so little that i basically end up having to buy most of my bra's from the children's underwear section. It doesn't do a lot for my esteem. Finding swimwear isn't fun either and i don't enjoy shopping for something nice because i feel i am putting the figure of a teenage boy in to otherwise feminine clothes.
I moan about my figure a lot but i have just enough esteem to not want to go down the route of surgery to 'correct' how i look. I'm the way i was made and i'll live with it.
I can understand wanting them thanks in no small part to the media, they're not important enough for me to risk my health over though. It's a shame more women can't see that.

Some people don't spend a great deal of time thinking about it - they do it because it's so accessible these days and because they see it as reasonably easy to recover from - and there are some clinics that will try to book you in within 1 or 2 weeks of a consultation (best avoided!). In my case that was not how it was. When I was 18 I would not have considered a BA - I had one because I wasn't content to have granny boobs as a result of childbirth etc (and they really were) for the rest of my life from the age of 25. If somebody else in my shoes said they didn't care and left it, good for them but it made me miserable. I think it's quite normal to be miserable about something you've lost. It's probably correct to say that you've got to be vain to feel that way but that doesn't mean you're emotionally damaged or have mental health issues.

Having a sister who has gone through augmentative surgery on her breasts, I am saddened to read this thread. Clearly none of the posters who object to the procedure have experienced the truly miserable state of mind in which my sister was in during her mid twenties when she opted for the surgery, due to having nothing much more than nipples.

I would ask therefore that the posters who seem most outraged by this procedure which has ultimately, thankfully, brought nothing but sheer relief, confidence and happiness to my darling sister to imagine not having breasts. Ever. Nothing. To imagine going through your teens and early twenties feeling to ashamed to take your bra off in front of anyone, even boyfriends. To walk with stooped shoulders and unable to wear most dresses etc designed with a feminine figure in mind. Especially in the face of a society that glorifies physical perfection.

And I don't get why it should be fine for those to have reconstructive surgery, but not fine for those who have never grown breasts to me there is no difference. In my opinion it is fine in both instances.

Not all breast enlargements are due to greed, lack of intelligence, a desire to look like a Barbie doll (far from is in dsis's case) or a superflous amount of income whereby the patient doesn't know what else to do with her money.

But I think I may be pissing against the wind here, so I'm off. Enjoy your breasts ladies, lucky you that you were born with them.

Sad as you feel for your sister, you have completely missed the point of the thread.

thebolter why breasts though?

Just for an example, I was born with an abnormally small bottom. I am out of proportion. I don't feel feminine - apart from the tits, I look like a boy. Should I have bags of silicone shoved under my skin in order to make myself look more like the pear-shaped UK norm?

If I lived in Brazil, I probably would feel that way.

It's cultural. And it's media and capitalism led. I don't doubt that your sister's feelings were very real, but I don't think they came from having small tits.

And the bolter, wouldn't you rather we lived in a society where your sister didn't feel she had to have surgery to feel "normal"?

That is the point of this thread.

No, you are right bolter, and I agree that to never actually develop breasts as a woman would be pretty awful.
It is seen as being part of a woman, and maybe not all that different to having reconstruction after surgery.
My sister has barely any (but not totally flat, probably an A cup) and I know she used to hate it. Although she does have amazing legs, so that kind of made up for it I think!
The thing is though, I wonder if the majority of BA patients are women like your sis?
There is a big difference between having a totally flat chest and having a BA, and having tits that are a bit saggy, or a bit small and having a BA.
Its a bit like the difference between having an absolutely MASSIVE nose, that kids point and laugh at in the street and having a nosejob, and having a a normal big hooter and having a nosejob.

We are talking major surgery here, as you know, so for the media in particular to act as though its no different to getting your eylashes tinted or your teeth capped is the problem imo.

Len is vain about her shoulder blades.

..... although she does have a lovely pair

It crossed over into mainstream because of the MONEY.

See an opportunity to make some. Create a need.