To think that the West is seriously fucked up on the bosom front?

[Hullygully]

Bags of poison sewn into our infant feeding parts.

How fucked up is that?

I see the point about men not doing it, noclue, but I don't want to live comparing myself to men. It makes me feel like they are the better sex and we should live up to them. There are a lot of things that men should be asking "do women do this?" (kick the shit out of each other, start wars etc) but they don't.

I don't really even know what femininity is. Or if it's a good thing or a bad thing. People have commented on my voice a lot, I have quite a deep voice and sometimes on the phone people think I'm a man. I really couldn't care less. So I'm not that sure why people are so hung up on being feminine.

?In the late 90's breast implants were banned by The Sun. All girls such as Jordan and Melinda Messenger who had them were 'retired' from page 3

Wow!

There is no quiet acceptance of how you are and no thought that vanity is a sin and we should concentrate on the good we do for others than preening in mirrors. Hopefully the recession will be a good time to get those values back as nation.

I don't know that there ever was, Xenia. People certainly preached those things, but I doubt anyone practised them in reality.

Look at all those ladies in Jane Austen, wondering whether their white muslin woud do.

I really don't want to go back to women being castigated for vanity and men allowed to despise them for it, while simultaneously judging them by their appearance.

Women used to get horrendously criticised for wearing make-up, for instance. I don't like the pressure to do these things one bit but have no desire to a situation where women really don't have the choice to do the even the ones that are physically harmless.

I think it would be better if women were castigated for makeup as it saves them time and hassle and money and puts them on a more level pegging with men if they don't bother with it, than have them castigated for other things.

I certainly woudn't ban it but if men and women could ensure their chidlren had full lives based on hobbies and careers and relationships and were taught to eschew concentrating too much on the selfishness of looks and personal vanity it woudl be better. Plenty of religions teach this. It is just a pity that atheists and agnostics don't seem to fill the moral vaccum left with anything similar.

I haven't got time for that last, but dear lord (sic) the relig point is nonsense.

Xenia, what fresh madness is this? No make up? Not even concealer? Do you seriously expect me to walk around town doing my shopping and be asked, "Do you need a bag? Oh no, I see you already have two giant gray ones UNDER YOUR EYES".

No, no no!!

ohhh have we come full circle to burqas??

The way I see it though, everyone has a vice of some sort. Some people are very snobby about cars and having a lovely home and expensive holidays or whether or not they or their friends have a professional job. Are those things not equally shallow if all that matters is the true person inside?

I am vain. I always have been. But that's not the sum total of who I am. I try not to subject other people to the boredom of what goes on inside my head wrt how I look. I've also had some hard times in my life which leave me in no doubt about the things in life which matter above all else.

I think if you eat well and don't drink and sleep a lot you can look fine without make up or with it. I wouldn't ban it but a lot of women do waste massive amounts of time of pointless looking in mirrors, buying and choosing clothes and all that sort of stuff. I can't really see the moral good in that.

Modesty rules, entropygirl! :o

Question to those of you that have breast implants for purely cosmetic reasons - if you have daughters, are you going to tell them that your breasts aren't natural? My daughter didn't miss a trick when she is growing up and I freely changed/change in front of her. I wonder what you guys will tell your daughters? Thanks - look forward to your responses ...... inquisitive as studying Psychology Degree :-)

Xenia You don't look good if you have acne or acne scarring without make up. you look spotty, and bumpy and sore, and people stare at you. So I think there is a case for wearing make up and not being vain. You can't hide or disguise your face with clothes. there is a difference imo

Perhaps if there were proper guidelines and rules regarding breast implants that surgeons had to abide by/follow, a real ethical code and some proper psychological assessment prior to surgery and counselling as there is with reconstructive surgery, fewer people might take such issue on this subject?
Personally I don't want vulnerable/dysmorphic/unstable etc women being taken advantage of by mercenary surgeons. And I don't think that all women who have surgery are those, but a lot of them may be. Not on this thread perhaps but out there in the non mumsnet world.

And for goodness's sake, reconstructive surgery is not the same as breast augmentation for undeniably obvious reasons as pointed out so poignantly and eloquently by Mishtake earlier in the thread.
Please read what she says if you haven't and then give me a proper explanationan as to why you can think they are the same, if you do???

Well I love make-up and drinking and high heels, and getting me 'air done.
Make-Up is my war paint. I have no problem leaving the house without it. Its just that with it I feel stronger. Same with heels. If I have an office job going on, I need my heels to click click click down the corridors. Makes me feel tall. And my hair, well when it's clean and groomed I feel confident.
None of that is the same as going under the knife, which I would never do, because
It's dangerous
Its permanent
It's buying into something I just don't want to be a part of.

Mayagoldmamma why do you think it's different ? Seems the same to me -> no boobs = breast surgery. If a flat chested woman is expected to live with that, why shouldn't someone who has a mastectomy ?

Are you assuming that anyone who has implants is flaunting them, trying to get on tv, star in porn movies, become a man eater?

Do you assume the women that have a reconstruction go home & wear an apron, keep their chests covered & behave impecably ?

do you actually know what your talking about ?

FYI male plastic surgery is on the increase.

This is the third time I have asked this - why won't anyone answer ?? Here goes, here's the question : Question to those of you that have breast implants for purely cosmetic reasons - if you have daughters, are you going to tell them that your breasts aren't natural? My daughter didn't miss a trick when she is growing up and I freely changed/change in front of her. I wonder what you guys will tell your daughters? Thanks - look forward to your responses

Yes I will tell my daughter that I had my breasts lifted and small implants put in after I had her and her brother - but only if she asks. She will be able to see dozens of pictures of me in low cut tops and bikinis when I was young pre implants (I had big boobs when I was a teenager (DD) because I was a little plump and medium sized boobs (B/small C) from about 21 onwards). My boobs are not what I would call big now, they are just right for my frame.

I was discussing this with my husband last night and we agreed that if dd was completely flatchested (unlikely as it doesn't run on either side of the family) then we would have some sympathy if she wanted to have small implants at 18. However, if she had a B cup say and just wanted massive hooters then we would both do all we could to discourage that - mainly because of the number of re-ops and uplifts that would be needed throughout her life if she started stretching her skin that much so young.

I should say that I'm not one for wandering around in the nude at home so the children rarely see me without clothes on. The older they get the less likely they are to see me undressed.

Xenia, I am vain by your definition as I wear make up, I also have a good career and a happy family. Please stuff your polemic where the sun don't shine.

Do you need to be so unpleasant, OldMumsy? Can't you just put forward your argument against Xenia's?

PARD and all that, you know?

Quite, BIWI.

Funnily enough, I was just about to post how great it was that we have got to 850 posts on an AIBU and maintained PARD throughout!

That'll learn me.

OldMumsy, kindly raise your game.

Polite
And
Reasonable
Discussion/Discourse (which is it, Hully?!)

Just as a reminder ...