To think that the West is seriously fucked up on the bosom front?

[Hullygully]

Bags of poison sewn into our infant feeding parts.

How fucked up is that?

Me too. Lost my mum to advanced breast cancer in 2004. I hate the mammogram experience but am grateful to be offered it.

yy BIWI

I got called for one last week and went along and had it and then discovered it was from a different programme. Had a right old hoo-ha and got told off by my family history one. Probs been kicked off now.

I hope my DD will be happy with who she is. She always sees my far-too-big Norks au naturel and I was happy the other day when she says boobs are for milk :) (to be fair she is too young for any other influence - but still I was chuffed)

DS I am sure will be confident in his body. At least, he likes to step out of his nappy and say "tadaaaaa"

Oh I see the thread has developed somewhat

No worries fuzzpig, good to hear all things.

@ fuzzpig's DS!

I have implants after recon from cancer but before that i had the smallest tits in the world and was very unproportioned had a fat arse i mean really small like a pubescent girl.I definately would have had implants if i could have.
Dont forget many women have it done not just for bigger boobs but to correct extreme defects such as having a huge difference in size or shape.

No one reads threads, do they?!

So it all kicked off then?

Still in complete agreement with you Hully.

No kicking, just a little light obduracy...

my boss sent me this text:
"the French company responsible for the PIP breast implants are recovering thousands of useless tits. Don't worry, sunshine, i won't tell them where you are" .
I love that man

I can't imagine wanting breast implants. I would gladly go round to schools and give talks about how horrendous it is having large breasts. You can't run, you can't do star jumps and there's always food collecting in there.

You're right Hully, it is fucked up. What I wouldn't do to be able to jog without having to wear two bras.

The thing about getting regular Brazilians, etc, is: wouldn't you rather be reading writing a book?

women who feel the need to have boob jobs might see it as a way of getting a certain type of power over men. females sexuality is pretty easy to manipulate to get your own way

sorry haven't read all the thread

It is wrong but how many comments ahve you seen on here putting other woman down ?? Whole threads about what was she wearing etc.

Porn has a lot to do with having the right 'look' but I also think other woman are the enemy within, very critical and bitchy.

I have 3 girls and hate the way woman are portrayed as image / looks first.

Does anyone have any serious ideas how we can change this ??

Hmm, I have read the whole thread & Cassette, you are being rather naive, of course it's our Right To Chose, but why, why would another-wise successful, healthy happy woman make that choice, which may jeopardise her health, her ability to nourish her children, her pure bloody sexual enjoyment?

Unless she inhabited a society in which she was being fed a constant drip, drip, dip message that her breasts were not good enough, not pert enough, not round enough & THAT would jeopardise her sexual enjoyment more than any potential mutilation?

Anyway, I digress, I was speaking to a friend about this the other day, we both have DDs, we both have DSs & we were both more concerned about the impact this constant pornification is having on our sons. Adolescent boys are so exposed to a barrage of melon breasted smooth fanjo'd women it must be bloody confusing & desensitising for them. When DH was young the only porn they ever saw was the occasional contraband mag & they were a picture of pastoral innocence compared to what young (& I mean young) boys can easily access now.

How do you get through their hormone addled brains that this IS NOT NORMAL?

(The conclusion we drew was to invite them to witness 'healthy adult love-making' in the parental bedroom as it may put them off for life), but really, HOW?

Ledkr - I don't tink we're disputing that there is a role for surgery in such instances. It's more about implants for purely cosmetic purposes.

Hully you have spoken much sense on here and I agree with you.

It's a pity that people who make such choices talk about wanting to feel good about themselves and not to please others/are not influenced by the culture around them. It's as if they can't see that influence and therefore can't see its relevance. I certainly understand this and would never condemn them for feeling this way.

However if the culture decreed that,say, small breasts and pointy heads were desirable would these people still be wanting larger breasts? I suspect they would be wanting breast reductions and pointy head reconstructions.

"Does anyone have any serious ideas how we can change this ??"

Start small. I love love love the bit in the Little Women movie (can't remember if it's in the book) where Ma tells the girls that she wants them to be valued, and value others, for the strength of their characters, their good hearts, not their looks. So, try with yourself. I've started trying to cut off the internal monologue about my looks, and when I make comments in my head about other women's looks. Instead of going "WOAH she has a huge arse" think "Man, she's got amazing eyes" or "wow she is intelligent". Then value your daughters/nieces/random girls for their character, not their looks.

It's something little, bit it starts it off.

AbsofCroissant - that is something Im trying to do. Im as critical as the next woman and far from 'perfect' myself.
I really wanted a boob job and after feeding 4 little fatties I thought I needed on. DH was dead against it he's more of an ass man and I have plenty of that but this year Im trying to get away from how I look and how others see me and instead getting new skills. Im baking and sewing my way out of insecurity ?? Not sure it'll work but I need to lead a good example for my little ones and I look at my DM and realise I feel exactly like her so maybe I can stop the cycle.

I suspect they would be wanting breast reductions

Absolutely.
In the 1920s women lashed their breasts down with bandeaux to appear as flat chested as possible.
It is always just slavish adherence to fashion that makes women do these absurd things.
Implanted tits and overwhitened teeth and spray on tans and botoxed foreheads are all just a passing fad. A bit of a freakish one too.

spiderslegs I have a son and I share your concerns. I wonder if it will be enough for me to be a shouty feminist who takes every opportunity to remind my son that hair is normal and breasts come in all shapes and sizes?

RE an earlier suggestion that men don't pluck and shave: I was talking to a friend recently and she said she knows a man in his 50s who has never had sex with a woman with pubic hair! that's, what, at least 30 years of sexual activity and not on natural bush . She also said that she is surprised by the amount of men she has slept with who have shaved their pubic area.

Also - I am 41 and there are people in my group of friends who have botox who are ten years younger than me. I find that shocking.

"I remember one kid at my school who wasn't allowed to shave her legs so was bullied endlessly. This was all because her mum didn't want her to look "sexy" hmm she was about 13. Poor kid"

really, you think this makes someone a poor kid?
I don't tink i shaved my legs until I was at least 16 and even now I only do it about once every two months. No one has ever commented.

It's all a bit strange really, I believe there is now a cut-off at which women below that age no longer have pubes, maybe it is cyclical, someone mentioned Ruskin before.

Fashion abhors what in commonplace, maybe, maybe, natural will become fashionable again (although high fashion hardly favours the Jordans of this world....so).

DH & I were watching an Al Pacino film from the 70's the other night - he went into a strip club & they all looked so real & sexy. It was lovely.