to think Beaver's shouldn't allow girls, as Rainbows don't allow boys?

[CoralRose]

Can't see why it is this way? DS is asking... what's the answer? Why are girls allowed to join beavers, but boys not allowed to join rainbows?

"I think you just have to accept that it is the way it is."

Really? If it had happened the other way round and boys were admitted to guides but girls were banned from scouts, would you be so accepting?

If you see other incidences of sexism do you shrug and say "Oh, you just have to accept that is the way it is"?

"But it's also not acceptable for girl children to be left out of something good"

It's acceptable for boys to miss out on something because of their gender though?

Look at the other way, mrspnut - if you had a boy who thought of himself as a girl, why shouldn't he be able to go to Rainbows?

The cubs in ds3's unit add to their fun and enjoy themselves immensely, I would happily have had boys in the Rainbow group I ran though had I been allowed.

However ultimately, whilst opinions etc are valid and there is an equality issue (which I think you have wrong way around but anyway)- it's a voluntary org; companies etc that receive our money should be pressurised if necessary to suit our needs. Whilst Equality is a prioority and is hugely valid etc we also have to accept that the people who lead our groups do so for free and we should be grateful as well- if there are issues take it up with Scout HQ certainly but the amount of grief I got when I was a Guider- sheesh! Even when I raised annoyance that one Dad was nearly an hour late when I faced a sixty mile drive home to handover to DH on night shifts (was after we moved byut before replacement started) and he would only answe 'you get apiud for it'- er no.

Agree with Oakmaiden's post.

If you're not happy with girls in Scouting, does the same extend to women in Scouting?

Soup Dragon - did you read the rest of my post? It has nothing to do with sexism, and everything to do with Scouting making a decision for THEM based on THEIR needs for more members, and guiding not having to make that decision.

FWIW I think Guiding should be open to both.

If that was the case Soupdragon, then I would be out there campaigning for boys to be admitted to the guiding movement.

What do you do if your son wants to be a boy?

Lump it.

*girl, obv.

Actually all three of my sons are perfectly happy being boys, within mixed Scouting and at weekends where we give them plenty of chances to work off their energy in a 'boy-appropirate' manner.

Oakmaiden, my post stands true "If it had happened the other way round and boys were admitted to guides but girls were banned from scouts, would you be so accepting? "

To those of you who want Scouts to be boys only, what is it exactly that you are objecting to? What are the girl cubs doing that is preventing your boys having some sort of 'better time'? How are they exactly causing a problem?

My son is a Cub and was a Beaver. He has the same amount of fun and takes part in the same activities that he would if there were no girls (his pack has several). What is the objection - what is this secret 'boys-only' stuff that they would be doing if you took the girls away?

Boy appropriate really? What IS that?

I ahve four boys and whilst I would say three were generally 'typically male' within the wide spectrum including sensitive, ds3 is very girly, adores pink, is kind and gentle and why the hell not? Although I don't see it as wanting to be a girl, just wanting to be himself.

"To those of you who want Scouts to be boys only, what is it exactly that you are objecting to? "

Mostly the fact that the same equality does not apply to Guiding.

Are the boys and girls brigade still single sex?

But it's also not acceptable for girl children to be left out of something good because their elders hold ridiculous views.

That's putting the cart before the horse. The problem is that some idiots, for misogynistic etc reasons, think that girls should be segregated from boys. As a society we can either pander to that crap and in doing so legitimise it, tell them to FRO.

Let's put it in a different context. Many religions think that homosexuality is an abomination. Would it be acceptable to segregate gay/lesbian adolescents into separate guides/scouts troops so that the religious nutjobs can ensure their children don't rub shoulders with homosexuals?

Are the boys and girls brigade still single sex?

They weren't when I was a member back in the 1970s. My brother and I were in the same group.

Maybe Brownies and Rainbows should just allow for more rough and tumble too, and Beavers and Cubs should include some more gentle activities as well.

That way the different natures of children, regardless of gender, could enjoy each club at different types.

But I do see nothing wrong with allowing boys only groups, especially as there are girls only groups.

Our local Beavers/Cubs remain just boys. They are full. I looked into it for DD but they were full and no places, and there were no girls in the group for whatever reason. Brownies were full too but DD did get a place eventually. DD's Brownies group was very activite and did a lot of activities all the time including clibing and bouldering, swimming, orienteering, bowling, archery, treature hunting outdoors, BBQ cooking, etc. so not all Brownies and rainbows are totally genteel.

Peachy - I used the term in relation to the people who seem to feel boys need particular, different games/activities to girls. My boys probably play a bit more football than their sister but other than that they pretty much do the same.

I don't really see why what one does is relevant to what the other does. They are not linked as organisations, although they do cooperate.

If guiding had to admit boys in order to remain viable, then that would be fine. And if there was demand for it (ie boys clamouring to join guides) then I think they SHOULD. But the fact is, there is very little demand from boys for places in guiding.

If scouting hadn't had to allow girls for numbers, then that wouldn't bother me. They offer nothing that Guiding can't offer anyway.

The reason I got involved with Guiding was I felt too many units offered very "tame" and unexciting activities, and wanted to develop a unit that did loads of fun things. It is perfectly possible. If you don't like what is on offer get involoved yourself, rather than grumbling about it.

Have any of these people who want scouts to be boys only so they can do rufty tufty stuff ever attended a colony/pack meeting. There is as much quiet stuff going on as there is outdoors/physical stuff. I was a beaver leader for a good number of years and my Dad was a scout leader for over 35 years and the boys did all sorts of craft and cooking and even sewing- all life skills. It's not some sort of junior fight club. There is plenty to appeal to all sorts of girls and boys.

Snorbs- of course not. But the choices for gay boys and girls are the same as the choices for straight ones in this context. I repeat, would you be happy for girls to hqve no choice to enable boys to have more choice?