to think Beaver's shouldn't allow girls, as Rainbows don't allow boys?

[CoralRose]

Can't see why it is this way? DS is asking... what's the answer? Why are girls allowed to join beavers, but boys not allowed to join rainbows?

I genuinely despair at the gender stereotyping going on here.

For me it isn't about gender stereotyping, it's about what Seeline said: girls and boys c=behave very differently when it's just one or the other and tend to get more stuck in and try new things because they aren't worried about looking silly.

Mind you my DS loves Cubs and he is not particularly into 'rough and tumble', football or any of the other 'boyish' things. He loves the camping and has learnt alot of useful skills - cooking, sewing, DIY, first aid etc. All in a boys only unit.

But what's wrong with gender stereotyping.

Do we have to include absolutely everyone in absolutely everything.

Why cant there be a club for boys and one for girls. What exactly is wrong is wrong with that.

Surely this thread should be 'rainbows should allow boys since beavers allow girls'? We shold be trying to improve equality and freedom, not make both genders equally restricted.

I completely agree. I think that on the whole society is geared against boys and they have are expected to behave like girls a lot of the time. When DS1 started secondary school he was in a mixed PE group and the boys were told to hold back because of the girls and they naturally would have done so, anyway. What he wanted was to be able to kick the ball as hard as he could, to tackle as hard as he could, etc., but was not able to as girls were present. There is no equality, still, as girls may hit boys at school, but if a boy hits back he gets labelled a wife beater.

I, too, was so glad that beavers, cubs and scouts around here are girl-free zones.

DD went to Brownies and Guides and I am glad that they were boy-free zones, too. Schools around here are nearly all mixed so there are not many opportunities for the genders to do things separately. I don't think boys should be allowed to the Guiding Movement, and I don't think girls should be able to join the Scouts, either.

Personally I think both organisations should be single sex, both sexes need time to be able to do activities without the opposite sex. Most children go to mixed sex schools so have plenty of time to mingle. Even before they are 10 lots of our brownies are very interested in how the boys in their school percieve them, I don't have any boys myself so can't say if boys are as bothered about girls.

But the different organisations don't stereotype - that's the whole point. My DS has cooked, sewn, sung, arts and crafts at an all boys unit. My DD has gone star gazing, cooked on fires, and gone for hikes. Both in gender-specific units. It's about having hte opportunities to attempt a whole range of activities without having to worry that you might be ridiculed in front of the opposite sex. It happens....

So do I despair at the gender stereotyping. I've got several years experience seeing boys and girls working together in a cub pack setting and our activities range from exciting outdoor stuff like raft-building and archery to more sedate indoor stuff like the junk modelling we did last night, cooking and various 'makes'. Some kids prefer one type of activity to the other but there is no automatic gender divide as to who will prefer what. I've never seen any embarassement at looking silly in front of the opposite sex. The only time we delibarately separate them out is when allocating tents on camping trips

I hated Brownies. LOATHED it with a passion, detested being with other girls, not because they were girls but because they were into things I loathed. I would have loved to have joined Beavers.

I think that what's wrong with boys only or girls only is that it doesn't cater for the masses of either female or male children that have never considered that they should behave a certain way because of their gender.

Pmsl at " what is wrong with gender stereotyping?"

In our twin we have Guides and two sorts of Scouts. Generally the Guides do more traditionally girly things than the Scouts, and girls who are thwt way inclined join them. Generally the Scouts do more traditionally boy-y things, and the girls who are interested join them. I have a dd who is a Scout and a dn who is a Guide. Both have brilliant experiences. But if my dd hadn't had the choice she wouldn't have still been a member of the Scout and Guide movement at 16 - which would have been a shame. I don't think her presence inhibits the boys at all!

Can everyone please read this and come back when you are willing to stop using phrases like "behave like girls".

OK so, pro-sexists, which club can wimpy boys join? Lots of boys I knew when I was a kid were the sort to prefer reading to playfighting. Should they also be excluded from cubs because they'd 'throw a screaming hissy fit' (or more likely cry) if people threw mud at them? Or should we just cut to your basic worldview and send them to homo-reeducation camps to have it beaten out of them, or what?

I personally think boys should be allowed to join Rainbows, and parents who are opposed to that on religious grounds should be sent to read their own religious books which all make it clear that there is no distinction before puberty, or just told not to be such ignorant twats. But I'm not seeing any solution from the gender essentialists which actually works for all boys, not just the sporty types.

send them to homo-reeducation camps to have it beaten out of them

You are awesome Wibbly :o

"The Guide movement was allowed to keep its single sex status because there are girls who would not be allowed, for cultural and religious reasons to join if it was not a girl only organisation. This is true in this country, but even more so in some other parts of the world."
Just in case the facts get submerged in the sexist twaddle!"

And again!

I actually agree OP.
I don't think that boys should be allowed in the Guides and girls shouldn't be allowed in the Scouts.
There's no reason why GG and Scouts can't get together to make a new branch, one with a new identity and that allows both (like Venture Scouts)
I think it's good for children to associate with only their own sex.
They do mix with the other sex plenty, at school and other clubs.
It means that they can cover more sensitive issues that otherwise would get sniggers if the opposite sex were there.

Why cant there be a club for boys and one for girls. What exactly is wrong is wrong with that.

They don't do the same things, so both genders are left out of something the might want to do, that they might benefit from. It reenforces the idea that boys and girls shouldn't play together and should favour different activities. A family might have access to one group and not the other because of location or timing. Mostly becase it isn't fair.

Because there aren't fundamentally these differences between boys and girls, ghese differences are a construct.

Stereotyping of anytype is lazy and wrong.

Wibbly - a good Beaver/Cub/Scout unit should be able to offer just as much for that type of boy as any other type. As I've said my DS has done 4 years in the movement and has loved it and he is not a boyish boy at all. Units offer a range of actvities - obviously not every memeber is going to enjoy every activity but the program should be balanced to ensure that there is something for everyone. Another aim of both organisations is to encourage memebers to think about others and their needs.

ISnt beavers scouting rather than guiding ? iyswim i do think there should be single sex things as boys and girls sometimes want to do different things , and we have boys brigade and girl guides dont see anything wrong with it , my dd is in guides and they do hill walking camping but also along with crafty things too she loves it ,

Ok- so in our town, if girls weren't allowed to join the Sea Scouts they wouldn't have to opportunity to sail, canoe, raft build- how would that be fair?

seeker i think i said the same as you did

i hated brownies, went on to scouts, loved it, loved the fighting, rolling round in mud, making dens, it's good for some girls.

i dont see the reason for segregration