to think Beaver's shouldn't allow girls, as Rainbows don't allow boys?

[CoralRose]

Can't see why it is this way? DS is asking... what's the answer? Why are girls allowed to join beavers, but boys not allowed to join rainbows?

The reason is that the Scouting movement of which Beavers is part of decided to let girls in due to declining numbers. Although there are boys only units.

The Guides decided to stay female only.

Declaring conflict of interest now as I am a Guider (with Guides rather than Rainbows/Brownies)....

I disagree with the pov that boys/girls want to do different activities, are fundamentally different, etc. We do a wide variety of activities in Guides which appeal to the girls that come as individuals, not because they are girls. I imagine the activities would appeal to some boys as well, depending on their individual interests.

However, I do fundamentally believe in single sex organisations for both girls and boys. Even at Brownie age (7-10) the girls are so concerned about what boys think of them that the girls-only space is good for them IMHO.I cannot speak for boys because I have no DCs and no Scout/Cub/Beaver, etc experience.

Both organisations offer a wide range of activities which will suit some children, but not others. There are many activities which cater for a range of interests that have already been mentioned e.g. ballet, music, sport clubs, etc. if Guides/Scouts do not suit - we can't expect children to all like the same activities regardless of gender.

The reason is that the Scouting movement of which Beavers is part of decided to let girls in due to declining numbers.

Not in our area. You need to be down at birth- and the scouts do lots of adventurous stuff so it doesn't tail off.

Marking spot - I want to read through all this tomorrow!

Exotic it was declining numbers at the time, things have picked back up again. It is also more than likely that there is a leader shortage, as this is usually the main contributor to waiting lists.

I wonder if there will be anything left that boys can do without having to allow girls to tag along too. Surely they should be allowed some opportunity to just do "boy" stuff, with other boys? Seems dreadfully unfair.

I am going back some years EduStudent. They were never on the decline in my area-there would have been far more if they could get the leaders. They still had to bow to pressure and take girls.
I agree with gaelicsheep-as the mother of DSs they do appear to have to share everything and girls are allowed to keep things just for girls. I can follow the cultural argument, but to be equal I think that boys ought to have some places just for boys-it appears to me that girls are more equal in that respect.

I can't say that it really bothers me. It finds it's own level. Girly girls are not going to join Beavers or Cubs -there is no way that I would have done as a child-I had brothers and wanted to get away from them! I also loved traditional 'girl' things.

But that's a very localised sample. Overall the numbers were declining, although some areas were thriving. Only taking on girls in the less popular area would have led to a very fragmented organisation, although I believe individual packs which already existed at least had a grace period where they old remain boys only.

Boys need to wrestle, roll around, shoot guns, make dens, crawl through woods, get muddy etc

My girls do that on a daily basis.

downplay all the rough and tumble in case they have a hissy screaming fit

I know a few boys like that, that behaviour isn't exclusive to girls.

You make HUGE generalisations, trifle.

I can see both points of view, as a child I hated brownies. My friends dad was a cub leader and I was invited to keep her company on activities so saw what the boys did and thought that brownies would do the same...no such luck. I didn't stay long. So as a child I would have loved to join cubs. In my twenties DH and I become scout and cub leaders just as troops were beginning to open doors to girls. The boys in our groups didn't want girls to join. They were given a vote in it and voted to stay boys only. After we left they were compelled to accept girls. After raising DC too I do feel for boys, girls quiterightly have been empowered but it is at the expense of boys wrongly-- not as equals. The pendulum has swung too far in many areas. Differences should be celebrated not eradicated. Activities need to appeal to and challenge all the children, physically, mentally and socially.

I'm with Oakmaiden.

Stuff all the sexism and stereotyping stuff it's about the pure practicalities of having enough kids and helpers to keep a unit running REGARDLESS OF GENDER.

Its a side issue in big cities that segregated groups for girls maybe preferred and so the guiding side of things is better attended perhaps?

I also think boys need to be able to be just with boys some of the time, also in the interests of fairness these services should allow single sex for both or for none..

Stuff all the sexism and stereotyping stuff it's about the pure practicalities of having enough kids and helpers to keep a unit running REGARDLESS OF GENDER.

I had a friend who was a Scoutmaster, he said the peedo scares, elf and safety issues and and then recently all the checks have been killers for men volunteering to help.

I can't think that people who say they feel strongly that boys should be allowed their own separate group exclusively for them can feel terribly strongly about it though. Otherwise they'd be off doing something about it and starting up their own thing.

Or is it (as I suspect) just easier to criticise what is essentially a volunteer lead organisation that is only trying to be inclusive to all. Bemoan those groups that exclude by all means; not the ones that don't.

I haven't read the whole thread but I used to be in cubs and scouts (they started letting girls in in 1990 by which time I was too old for beavers). There was a waiting list for brownies in my area so cubs was a second choice but I loved it. I was a tomboy so it was perfect.

I know that traditionally scouting has also had women leaders, which is required if you have girls in the troop, especially when it comes to camps. Maybe it's less feasible (and possibly less comfortable?) to have male leaders at rainbows/brownies/guides if they are required?

I see no problem with girls being in scouts and boys being in guides but realistically how many boys would choose rainbows over beavers? Maybe they thought it would be a waste of time changing everything to accommodate.

I have to say that if even half the people complaining actually volunteered to help run a group there'd be enough leqders so there's be no waiting lists, and plenty of choices of activities. Strange how they tend to melt into the woodwork when it involves turning out at 7.00 on a February Friday to open the hut and supervise the campfire lighting!

Well said seeker.

Astounding seeker isn't it? I've done all three sections this week because we are short of leaders. How long before my family start moaning?

true - my mum volunteered as tawny owl cos my sister wanted to join brownies and they were short on help. she did it for about 13 years in the end.
she also started a sunday school at church because my sister wanted to go (she cleaned for the vicar, that's how she got the connection)

Choice means picking from two or more available options

Join Scouts or not join Scouts.

For some girls it would be join nothing.

Scouting included girls because of the fact that they had falling numbers. My friends 2 girls love scouting but hated the guiding movement.

The only 2 girls in the history of my son's scout group lasted less than a year. We've never had any others ask to join. But I know other groups where they have a mix of boys and girls who get on. So theoretically ds's scout group is boys only.

I've got a lovely group of girls who are in my unit at Brownies but I couldn't imagine boys in it. Ds did love rainbows when I helped out and had no childcare, but I think that was more the way the girls fussed over my 2 year old.

I have to say that if even half the people complaining actually volunteered to help run a group there'd be enough leqders so there's be no waiting lists, and plenty of choices of activities. Strange how they tend to melt into the woodwork when it involves turning out at 7.00 on a February Friday to open the hut and supervise the campfire lighting!

So true! I couldn't even get them on a rota once a term for Beavers. Sadly you can't make the children miss out so you can't do it-but I would love to press gang them!!

The thought of having girls in a cub / scout club is awful. It would ruin the whole atmosphere! Boys need to be with boys and have adventures with boys. That's how it should be!

Does everything have to be a tit for tat with boys and girls. It's nice to have boys doing activities just with other boys. So do girls.