to think some parents are totally unrealistic about how schools work?

[CailinDana]

I'm a former primary teacher (now SAHM) and I loved my job but the attitude some parents had towards me and my colleagues was one of the worst aspects of being a teacher. Despite having never taught, and being a maximum age of eleven when they were last in a primary school, some parents seem to think that they know far better than teachers how to run a school.

Some threads on MN give me flashbacks to those parents. It just makes my blood boil when parents seem to be putting everything teachers do under a microscope as though they're bound to be doing something wrong. Some parents seem to be under the impression that teachers are minor dictators, completely controlling everything in the classroom with no professional standards or supervision. Other parents believe that a teacher, one solitary adult, should be au fait with every little aspect of every child's progress and ability (eg reading books) at all times despite having at least 25 children to teach. Who do they think teachers are? Where do they get these ideas from?

I do definitely think that parents should be involved in their child's education but I have seen good, hardworking teachers ground down by overbearing parents who question their every move. Teaching is a difficult enough job without feeling like people who have no real understanding of the job are constantly monitoring you. AIBU to think that to a large extent parents should trust teachers to have their children's best interests at heart and that they should try to have realistic expectations of what teachers can actually do?

Star - after the grim experience of DS's last school I had written into his statement that he needs school to work with me to ensure consistency of approach as regards his behavior/social skills and academc work. This was done via a tribunal.

It's a flipping shame when common sense has to be transformed into legalese to protect a child but it was a necessary precaution as his SEN is so generally poorly understood.

I don't have too much sympathy for Primary teachers tbh - have seen too many kids arrive at secondary who are almost beyond help as their educational needs have been neglected so long, that they have zero self-esteem remaining.

SOME teachers are fantastic, brilliant hard-working educators who impart the gift of knowledge and love of learning that leaves people inspired 30 years later. Sadly a small minority achieve the opposite.

More than parents, it's "know nought", politicans and journalists that drive me up the wall in relation to teachers. Their tickbox demands and targets and turning primary teachers into social work substitutes has done so much damage. Anyone remember Estelle Morris?

OK, so what if I want my son taught one-to-one for all lessons, and refuse to accept that that can't be acheived or even that is desirable? Or that the school should replace my son's coat because he lost it at school? Or that he should be taught by a male teacher because I think that is better for him? All of which are genuine demands I have heard from parents. If my relationship with the school was purely that of customer/provider, I should be able to insist on those things.

insanityscratching - I asked DP if how much SEN training normal primary teachers get & he said 'very little'. probably explains quite a lot....

Boch, I had that written into my ds' statement too. All it did was put the teacher's back up and subsequently implement strategies more secretly. Despit statement and tribunal she believed my ds' needs weren't as great as the documents made out, that she knew best and that ds had resources that other less pushy/resourceful parents were able to get for their kids, despite the fact that I sold my house to achieve it.

And by all accounts she was a good teacher, just very very misguided and defensive.

No provider of goods and service ever simply gives the customer whatever they ask.
But they do listen. There is open dialogue.

I woul dhave thought an open dialogue with a school was the very least a parent could expect. And I would have though the ability to listen would be at the very heart of a teacher's skill set.

"If my relationship with the school was purely that of customer/provider, I should be able to insist on those things."

All organisations, however customer-focused, work within organisational and economic constraints. One-to-one teaching is neither organisationally nor economically viable for a school. It doesn't make the school any less of a service provider.

OI, you should be able to insist that these things are taken seriously as requests, and potential policy changes, brought up at a school meeting, properly minutes and those minutes be made available to parents.

worst parent behaviour DP has dealt with:

1. 11 yr old girl, very interested in sex - i mean condoms & the pill. mum refuses to think the anything to be concerend about
2. parents in denial of child's SENs
3. parents obsessed with child's SENs. school think they are at best making her miserable. at worse some from of munchhausens
4. mother & child locked in cupboard by dad.
5. mum with SEN befriended by know child sex offender
6. children not fed but have new clothes.
7. parents telling school not to talk with them about their DCS.
8. possible incest between mum & her father
9. children from war zones, whose whole families are missing presumed dead

and on and on...

i think professional people have better things to do than deal with:

"Or that the school should replace my son's coat because he lost it at school? Or that he should be taught by a male teacher because I think that is better for him?"

or maybe they should deal with stupid requests before the girl whose adoption has just failed again. she said in DPs office:

"[name] is for life (not just for christmas)"

I'm not sure that that has any bearing on anyone else Tilly or at least it shouldn't.

When I was a lawyer I couldn't say to a client that their case was trivial compared to the serila killer I was dealing with...unsurprisingly their own case was terribly important to them and, quite rightly, they wanted to feel that it had my attention and priority.

the schools time & money is limited. how do you conjure extra staff & time out of thin air?

But why are teachers dealing with adoption anyway?

you dont go to A&E with a mild headache.

And that is one of the reasons why parents try to avoid challenging schools like the plague.

They feel that their concerns will be as nothing next to x,y or z. And it seems they are right.

You don't need more time and money, you need more efficiency, evidence based practice clear outcomes with detailed and defined pathways and accountability.

NOT a fudging of the above justified with bollox talk about service delivery being a 'relationship' that can't be measured.

StarlightMcKenzie - i think schools are always involved - change of address, often move school, plus change of parents is likely to affect the DC.

how could they not be involved?

Also, I think we need to be very careful about giving problems a hierarchy. Who says which needs are greater? Who gets to decide that?

WF- They feel that their concerns will be as nothing next to x,y or z. And it seems they are right:

yes. they just need to suck up the lost coat (unless there is bullying) because schools have more important things.

Sorry but that is ridiculous Tilly, Are you saying problems have to be in the extreme to be dealt with? That's a very slippery slop IMO.

zzz my Mum's elderly friend called 999 the other night for a glass of water ...but actually in a way it highlighted a huge problem there an unattended old lady who can't even get herself a drink.

Tilly I'm well aware that primary teachers have very little training in SENs possibly half an hour on the whole autistic spectrum.That's why I believe it's arrogance when a teacher presumes that they know more than other professionals who most likely have specialist knowledge and the child's parents who have most likely gained invaluable experience and insight purely because they have no choice but to be their child's advocate.
I can make a teacher's life so much easier if they allow me to give them the benefit of my experience and knowledge not because I know more about teaching but I know strategies and tactics that are proven to work with my children time after time.
My dd's teacher who is absolutely fantastic acknowledges that I am a valuable resource in teaching dd and we have a great relationship and more importantly dd is thriving and making great progress.

wordfactory - if your client lost their coat in your office when in their own care, then came to you for replacement , how much time would spent dealing with them?

And what else do they need to suck up? Do the teachers get to decide that?

HowlingBitch - no. the utterly trivial shouldnt be raised at all & others should be dealt with, but the response will depend on what else the school has on at that point in time. not ideal but that is how it is.

insanityscratching - i agree. some training on ASD would be the ideal. if you were to recommend a book about ASD for teachers to read, what would it be?