to think some parents are totally unrealistic about how schools work?

[CailinDana]

I'm a former primary teacher (now SAHM) and I loved my job but the attitude some parents had towards me and my colleagues was one of the worst aspects of being a teacher. Despite having never taught, and being a maximum age of eleven when they were last in a primary school, some parents seem to think that they know far better than teachers how to run a school.

Some threads on MN give me flashbacks to those parents. It just makes my blood boil when parents seem to be putting everything teachers do under a microscope as though they're bound to be doing something wrong. Some parents seem to be under the impression that teachers are minor dictators, completely controlling everything in the classroom with no professional standards or supervision. Other parents believe that a teacher, one solitary adult, should be au fait with every little aspect of every child's progress and ability (eg reading books) at all times despite having at least 25 children to teach. Who do they think teachers are? Where do they get these ideas from?

I do definitely think that parents should be involved in their child's education but I have seen good, hardworking teachers ground down by overbearing parents who question their every move. Teaching is a difficult enough job without feeling like people who have no real understanding of the job are constantly monitoring you. AIBU to think that to a large extent parents should trust teachers to have their children's best interests at heart and that they should try to have realistic expectations of what teachers can actually do?

silverfrog - I'm pretty sure Channel 4 made a series with that super-teacher Phil guy called 'The Unteachables'. (as an aside from the seriousness of the thread!)

Yes that is a large amount compared to people working in other sectors.

My dp is waay more qualified than me and he didn't jump up anywhere near that amount in the early days. Also what pay increase he did get had to be argued for and was performance related not just given regardless.

Calin You do realise that LA EPs and other professionals are generally not allowed to suggest a child needs to be educated in a special school!?

'Some children are basically unteachable'

Do not mistake your own incompetence for a small child's inability.

There is a history to that Starlight, which has nothing to do with the needs of the child and everything to do with funding. I did consider training to be an EP but when I looked into it it became clear that a large part of the job is finding ways to allow the LEA to spend the least money possible. If I wanted to be an accountant, I'd train as one.

The term used to be "ineducable", sparkling. That term led to the institutionalisation of generations of children with learning difficulties, who were often removed from their families and a source of shame and stigma.
That's not a world I want to live in, nor one I would want my children to view as the norm.

Would just like to add the in my day the pushy(annoying parents) were those more likely to hear their kids read,help,fund raise etc which brings me back to my first post.

If you request parents to get involved you don't dictate how much or what about. Having your cake and eating it springs to mind.

I probably am the parent from hell.I'm very interested,ask questions,complain if I don't like what I see errr because they are my children,no professional is perfect and my tax pays teachers wages.Also complacency is a very dangerous thing even in outstanding schools.

Decent good quality teachers aren't scared of interested,involved parents.They can answer questions and deal with complaints.If they can't it's very worrying.

Oh and for the record I absolutely do not agree that there is any child out there that is unteachable.

'where the school experience is the only form of remediation'

This is what I find outrageous. What arrogance!

Also no child is unteachable.

The most amazing teaching I've ever witnessed has often been with the hardest children to teach,some of the worst has been with the easiest.

Starlight, LA EPs can suggest that a child be educated in a special school (it's part of the HPC duty of care, AEP back it).

The LA are of course free to ignore the suggestion.

Right. I am not and never have been a teacher. I have eight years experience so far of my children attending school. Their first school was a small village one where you tended to know exactly what was going on.

"For children with high levels of challenging behaviour, not controlled by medication, where the school experience is the only form of remediation I would argue that the classteacher is well placed to know if they can cope with mainstream"

Wow just wow I am astounded at this.

My experience has been, having a child with autism and described as having extreme challenging behaviour, that the levels of challenging behaviour displayed has been directly proportional to the capability of the teacher particularly because ds has had 1 to 1 support from the minute he entered nursery.
So a rubbish teacher, especially those who believed his TA was a classroom assistant, would see the challenging behaviour whether because the TA's resources were stretched or because of poor general classroom management, poor inclusion and differentiation or whatever.
A good teacher would see no challenging behaviour and ds was perfectly manageable and educable in mainstream school.
Ds is now in Independent specialist school and has no challenging behavious whatsoever because of the environment and experience available to him.
Medicated? Never!

Maybe I should have replaced 'unteachable' with 'difficult to motivate'?

it is the world we live in, though, working. dd1 is 7. she has severe ASD. she is making brilliant progress. yet she has been turned away from more schools than I care to remember - and all this without severe challenging behaviour.

yes, I could have insisted on her attending the majority of those schools which turned her away. but I didn't want ot send her anyhere she was not wanted, iyswim.

even when a child is 'included' in mainstream, most of the time it is resented, and seen as a problem.

I wish I could be more optimistic that 'unteachable' children were accepted more in the world. but they are not, unless the LA is forced to do so by pushy parents. and then the teachers end up resenting the pushy parents

Interested, involved parents are great MrsHeffley. They make life a whole lot easier and more satisfying for teachers. Having a parent actually getting involved in a reading programme, or write a proper note in a reading log, or send feedback on the problems a child is having with homework is a massive help - plus it makes a teacher feel like their work is being recognised and that they have a supportive partner that's on their side. It's hugely reassuring and I welcome that kind of involvement. The problem I have is with parents who don't have any real involvement with their child's education bar the infrequent angry visits and nasty notes complaining about things that the parent clearly knows very little about. All I would like really is for parents to be realistic about what schools can actually do day to day.

where the school experience is the only form of remediation

sorry, I should have clarified. I think in shorthand sometimes.

Where the school experience is expected to be the only form of remediation as per the Statement, or as per school action plus recommendations, ie. all involved professionals look to teaching and learning to solve the child's behavioural difficulties, where there is no need for medication, where all recommendations are school based.

I hope this is a little clearer.

Oh I know, silverfrog... but I suppose the point I was making is that I don't want to go back to a world where parents trusted the views of doctors/teachers/others so much that they bore that stigma themselves and felt there was no other option but to send their children away to be hidden from society as they were unworthy and there was no hope for change. There is a lot of work to be done to be in the world I do want to live in, but at least there are legalities there to enable the fight, gruelling and unjust as it continues to be.

MrsJoe. They can, but they rarely do. LA EPs rarely make any recommendations at all.

insanityscratching

Just to be clear, I wasn't suggesting medication, but I realise it was a badly written post. I was commenting that some kids will have medication, and some won't.

Sorry to all if that read as offensive.

I think its worth remembering that 75% of people in the UK earn less than £31,000. The median is £20,500.

Teacher salaries start at £21,500.

IMO teachers are underpaid for what they do. It's one of the most challenging jobs around. However, they should campaign for a higher salary because they are worth it. And they are worth it, very much.

They should not campaign for higher salaries by pleading poverty - because that just won't wash and it annoys the very people (parents) who should be supporting them. Teachers are paid more than at least half the country, rising towards better off than 75% of the country by the time they've been in the profession for a while. Leadership roles in teaching can command the top 10% of salaries in the UK.

To return to the original post. Maybe I've been exceptionally fortunate, but in my children's mainstream, state primaries (one with very disadvantaged intake and high levels of learning difficulties and special needs), the teachers have always appeared to know exactly where my kids are with reading books, literacy and numeracy and have set individualised targets for each child. From age 4, my dd has had reading homework every day, and the teacher expects and responds to parents' written comments. If you don't know where they are with their progress and ability in different subjects, how can you set appropriate work? I would also say they seem to have had a fair amount of support from TAs - was that not the case in your school?

Lots of people have completely unrealistic opinions about how a lot of jobs work. It's not just teachers

You forget parents often get very little information re their children's progress bar 2 parents evenings a year and a computer print out report.

Often schools set things up and they're not followed through,they request things but don't stick to their side of the deal. This is annoying and frustrating for parents. Reading records stick in my mind.

How often are we instructed to hear our kids read every night,given waffle re records being home/school communication,guided reading being done regularly etc,etc?As a working parents it is a tad annoying to hear 2 or more kids every night only to not have said communication book written in for a whole term or books not changed,questions not answered if there are concerns about progress etc.

Parents have a right to ask questions any time they wish and to comment on things they deem as inadequate. Why should parents be muffled just because. What if we're worried,concerned or annoyed we should just do nothing? Err no thanks.If we don't speak up for our kids who will?Also in my experience concerns often don't get dealt with or taken seriously unless you jump up and down about it.

To think a child will sail through primary school with every teacher giving an outstanding performance every week of the year is naive. Teachers/schools will stuff up now and again. Teaching is a work in progress,you are never good enough to sit back,you can always learn.If parents don't complain a minor niggle can turn into a major problem.

Sorry if teachers can't cope with this they should simply move on.