To not understand why he hasn't proposed yet...?

[Tanz825]

Hi,

Me and my partner have been together 5 and a half years now and he still hasn't asked me to marry him. We have been living together for 4 years and have bought our own house together last year and are living there with our 9 month old daughter. There has always been talk of getting married ever since very early in our relationship, not just from myself but from my partner too but he still hasn't asked me to marry him. I'm starting to wonder why and sometime get upset about it because he knows how important it is to me. I wouldnt be so upset but he keeps referring to where we might get married (abroad) but he hasn't asked me yet and it's like pouring salt in a wound. Over Christmas two of my friends have got engaged and they have been together half the time we have which I was so happy for them but at the same time I felt like it was my turn. His family keep asking him why he's waiting and he just says theirs no rush. He is a romantic at heart and I believe he wants it to be perfect he says we can't afford it. I think hes setting his expectations to high, which is lovely but i dont care about those fancy things. He also thinks that once we get engaged I'll want to get married straight away which is not the case. I've told him I don't care about fancy rings or a big wedding all I want is to be married to him and have the same name as him and my daughter and be his wife. I just feel like the longer were together the less he thinks it matters and that he's just taking his time because he knows he can. Iv thought about asking him but he said a while ago that if I ever ask him he'll say no coz that's his job. I know I may sound selfish but it's getting to me and I'm feeling a little resentful which I don't like. Anyone know how I can't stop feeling like this? I generally just push it to the back of my mind but then something comes up about marriage or engagements and I get a hollow feeling in the pit on my stomach and all those feeling come back. I know I shouldn't feel like this and I should just wait till he's ready, which I will, but In the mean time I need to find a way to block these sad feeling. Anyone have and suggestions?

Thanx
Tanya

I think the 'leave him' comes from what you would have done in the situation of being with someone who didn't want to marry you, but as I had that conversation (and most people who are pro-marriage) before having DCs, then it is easy to say that's what you would have done. I would have left DH if he didn't want to get married, but then I refused to even live in a flat I couldn't afford to rent on my own before we got married (much to his annoyance), let alone have DCs.

It does seem odd how many woman out there who want marriage but bob along, living together and having DCs and not having that conversation. While a lot of woman do get pregnant by accident, there seems (on here anyway) a lot of planned DCs from unmarried mothers who want to get married, why would you have the DC conversation without having the marriage conversation too if that matters to you ?

I don't get the over romanticised idea that a woman can't force the issue to be discussed and marriage conversations have to be all rose petals and coy smiles, not a practical discussion about how you'd like to live your life.

Mrs Fruitcake, there are many legal reasons that people chhose to marry once they have a house and children.

Read RhondaJean's post about her her MIL and read Olga's post.

Being married means you are unequivocally the spouse - you have uncontestable rights in Law - such as pension rights, inheritance rights, NOK etc. Some of these rights can be replicated with a contract/solicitor/nominating NOK at GP surgery, making a will, etc, but not all.

Btw, it's worth remembering that married couples should have wills as well - it is by no means simple even if you are married. But considering 2/3 of adults in the UK die without a will, it just shows that an awful lot of people do not have the necessary paperwork in place should the worst happen. :(

Aw, mummymccar - that's lovely. If it helps, one of the happiest weddings I went to was only with 8 guests. they invited more than 200 to the evening do, but then only had to do speeches and be the centre of attention to v close family and friends.

LyingWitch - I am sure you didn't mean to imply that parental responsibility just means making maintenance payments??

Just a general question too - would anyone who doesn't want to marry want a civil partnership?

Genuinely interested...

I understand a reluctance to have a wedding, but not the reluctance to have a marriage if you are living together with children.

I suppose if a civil partnership was a legal registering of the relationship without a wedding then people might be more inclined to opt for it. Even just pitching up at the registry office is seen as a wedding with people getting narked for not being invited etc.

Lydia I take your point, that these things per se are not absolute proof of commitment, but then neither would a wedding ceremony undertaken with a lingering sense of resentment.

No sign of the OP again?

"I agree with other posters that it is terribly depressing that so many people still seem to subscribe to the idea that marriage is the only possible end result of a relationship, and that it the man needs to be enticed into closing the deal or have his motives and feelings viewed with suspicion."

I blame Mills and Boon for this, kungfu

Mummy
Glad that this discussion helped you clarify your discussion. Good luck tonight, and don't forget to let us know how you got on.

Giraffe you've got a good point.

I've always viewed a marraige as a contract between two people. That's why I'd query the difference in a civil partnership.

As a society, perhaps we need to examine our expectations of a wedding as a social occasion and a chance to basically show off?

Do we really think people would get less upset at not being invited to a civil partnership?

I have known people who are still paying off the wedding when the divorce comes through. Makes me think some of our priorities are a bit warped?

It may be that deep down he feels, on principle, that there is no reason to marry EVER, as he thinks that marriage as a social construct adds nothing of value to the relationship (and for many perfectly committed people that is true) or it may be that he would love to marry you eventually, but he wants to be in a position to buy you a nice ring and pay for a nice wedding, and he just isn't in a position to do that now, and he doesn't want to just 'do it' without making it as nice as it can be for you both.

The only way you will find out is by asking him to be honest with you about how he feels. But if the answer is the first one, you need to be careful you don't throw the baby out with the bathwater by over-reacting to what you see as bad news. Your good, happy, committed relationship is what it is - marriage or no marriage. And it can still last a lifetime.

On the other hand, what I don't get (and never will) are people who are happy to have children with someone, but baulk at the idea of marriage as they are 'not ready for such a huge commitment.'

Like children are not the biggest most imprtant joint commitment you ever make?

I used to think (pre-children) that children were a bigger joint commitment than the commitment to stay with your partner.

But I now no longer think so! Children grow up very fast, for one thing - they aren't with us for long. And when parents divorce, it becomes quite easy, after a while, to parent separately nearly all the time, the exceptions being "big decision time" eg changing schools.

Aww mummy am really pleased for you, well done!! Let us know what DP says in response to your compromise.

I think the point is that it is so idiosyncratic and complex an issue that only individuals can decide.

For example, on the legal issues again - this is probably only applicable to my parents, but - when they divorced my mum was not entitled to a share of his pension despite the fact that they had been married for over 30 years. This was because although they married in the UK my dad's job was with an agency outside the UK whose pension arrangements were administered outside UK jurisdiction and therefore could not be subject to UK law.

Now that is completely random, but there are so many loopholes, like XHs not paying child support etc. Each individual couples' situation will be so different, legally and emotionally that I think the only thing to do is look at the facts in your particular situation, think about your values, and make a joint decision.

Like in my case as a PP pointed out, it'll be my DP who would benefit from the protection of marriage - not 'the wife' therefore - but he's not arsed about it.

rhonda I think many people don't just see marriage as a contract - see the emotional responses here about how it is lifelong commitment etc. I think many people would be more comfortable with a more 'neutral' feeling civil partnership. For both DP and I - one of us grew up witnessing a traditional and deeply unhappy marriage, the other from a very religious background but now lost his faith - 'marriage' as an idea has lots of connotations we personally find it hard to get on with. A civil partnership might be different.

rhondajean... No, not at all, but the ability to feed and clothe a child is something that some feckless parents take no interest in at all. If they can't even have the decency to do that, they're not going to be bothered about the child's emotional welfare and have the wherewithall to be a 'hands on' parent, are they? That was my point.

You only have to read the posts here where posters are struggling with little or no maintenance payments... that shouldn't be within the gift of a biological parent to decide - it should be automatic with sanctions in place as necessary.

On the civil partnership issue... I have family in Austria. When people marry, they have a registry office ceremony (which is the official) bit, with an optional church ceremony afterwards - everybody does. They must do the first 'bit', that's all.

Thanks yonder that's interesting. See, it's a way I would nevere have looked at it, which is why I asked.

Lying I knew you didn't mean it as only thing- and I agree it's very important. There's a whole big conversation which isn't for this thread about how we could address that?

I never married the kids father despite being with him for ten years, I did however marry the man who came after him, lasted 7 years.

I hated the kids dad with a passion and only stayed in the abusive, physically and mentally relationship because i was too weak too get out and was scared of him.

What the OP's partner seems to be dangling in front of the OP is a kind of jam tomorrow. He will keep the OP hanging on hoping that tomorrow will eventually come.

As we all know tomorrow never comes. The OP's partner is keeping his options open. He might want the perfect wedding but not necessarily with the OP. For the time being he is playing happy families without the ultimate commitment.

If the OP's partner gets a better offer he will be off and will have his perfect wedding just to show to the world that the new relationship is better than the one with OP.

Sorry, is my cynicism showing?

Yes, that's the real problem here, not that being married is better than not being married (after all, if you get a man to marry you by crying, begging and witholding sex, he can still divorce you later, and make you miserable in the meantime by using every row as an opportunity to remind you that 'you wanted to get married'). I think the reason some people are saying the OP might consider leaving is it sounds as though she's in an unequal relationship with a man who thinks he can keep her dangling with vague promises he has no intention of fulfilling.

I think there is still a lingering stigma in our society in relation to unmarried women. No matter how many times this debate comes up, and people make the point that women are equally capable of making marriage/relationship decisions as men are, we still don't get threads started by men complaining that their DP won't marry them and that they are worried that they don't love them enough as a result.

I do wonder how many women are unhappy about being married because they have this lingering feeling that it is what society expects of them. It has got to be easier to have an unfulfilled wish if you aren't being bombarded by advertising/TV/songs about how that particular wish is exactly what you should be wanting and expecting, or if you aren't constantly being quizzed by others about why you haven't got your wish yet.

I genuinely don't give a damn if anyone else thinks I should want to be married, or that I have somehow failed to "catch" DP properly, but then again I am not surrounded by people going on about it all the time. Our family is fine with our set-up and I work in a strong, all-female, multi-cultural environment - my colleagues all fly in the face of stereotypes in various different ways and I am probably the most conventional of the lot. So when, as happened the other day, a family member who really isn't in a position to judge on this issue randomly decides to quiz me about our "intentions" and question our motives, I can look at them like they are bonkers rather than feeling defensive about my situation.

If I had family, friends and colleagues constantly asking "ooh, when is he going to make an honest woman of you?" etc etc, I might feel a bit differently.

I am not in any way suggesting that this is the motivation of all women who are unhappily unmarried, but I think there must be some who would be less fussed about it if everyone around them was less fussed about it.

I could face a civil partnership. It's the associations and history of marriage that make me feel faintly sick.

A wedding, now, that would be fun. I like a party. Marriage, hmm, not for me.

Interestingly, KFP, my partner has started whingeing complaining slightly about my failure to step up to the marital plate. (His latest was 'but I don't want people thinking I'm single'. In a manner that suggested that gorgeous women were just flinging themselves at him in a hopeful manner .)

Just buy him some pepper spray - much cheaper than a wedding!

motherinferior i am with you there

Out of interest, how is a civil partnership different from marriage? I thought it gave same sex couples the same rights as married couples? Only they're not allowed to call it 'marriage' because the Church got all arsey about it?