to not want disabled BIL to live with us

[sonotready]

I feel like a total shit and am well prepared to be flamed, prob. deserve it :(

BIL is disabled - birth accident left him brain damaged, with learning/mental issues rather than physical ones. He is a nice guy (mid 30s now), who doesn't know he's disabled iyswim.

DH grew up knowing he would always need to look after his brother (MIL a single mum), and over the years we have hd 4am mercy dashes to police stations (when BIL feels threatened he lashes out and he'd been cornered by another service user at a drop-in centre), had to cope with BIL's 'friends' selling all his things and dealing drugs out of his flat and all sorts. Eventually BIL was persuaded to move back in with MIL (because she 'needed help' not because he needed someone to keep an eye), and he rubs along okay looking after the pets and doing garden work. MIL works away. They live five hours from us.

When DH and I got together I was late teens and while I did know on some level that one day BIL's care would fall to us I didn't fully appreciate what it would mean. BIL 'seems fine' and I was very young and MIL was far from old or frail.

We've been over for the festive season and MIL has raised the possibility of BIL coming to stay with us for a while as she needs a break. DH feels strongly we must do this, and I sort of agree, but I will be the one looking out for him all the time as DH works and I'm a SAHM. MIL is making out that it will be free babysitting for the DCs but given how BIL reacts to unpredictable things happening that's just not going to happen until the DCs are a lot lot older - he's fine playing XBOX with them and they love that, but DH vividly remembers BIL setting fire to the grillpan accidentally and then panicking and disabling the smoke alarm so he didn't get in trouble and running out of the house leaving DH and MIL asleep upstairs... so I just couldn't leave him in charge of young children.

DH's already had a massive go at me for letting BIL use his laptop (apparently it was 'obvious' that he'd be downloading porn and other dodgy things), and my mobile (he said he wanted to play angry birds and has run up £££ of charges to sex lines - MIL said I was stupid to give it to him but nobody has ever told me he has form for that before!)

MIL is dropping hints that we should bring BIL home with us when we go back - I really really don't want to, not without a lot more preparation and a lot more understanding of what it is going to involve.

I've asked about official respite (total no go apparently for lots of reasons, also MIL doesn't want someone to 'look after' BIL she wants him to do a 'normal thing like visiting his brother, he's always asking why you don't have him to stay').

DH thinks IABU - what do you think?

Sonotready I hope you left on OK terms with DH this morning and your trip back wasn't too bad. You have done the right thing, both leaving DH there and saying that if MIL needs respite and DH is happy to provide it, he (or you all) can go there. The other thing you need to look at though is how much leave your DH can take from work - is this going to mean he never has any holiday leave left for time with your family?? But this, along with a lot of other things can be talked about when he gets home and you are both a bit calmer. Hopefully this week there will give him a bit of a wake up call.

I read the thread with interest because I have a sister who sounds like she has a similar level of impairment to bil. I just wanted to say that although she knows she is not as clever as other people, she doesn't understand the degree of her limitations and there is really no way of telling her without being cruel. How can we say, you will never be able to marry or have children, you will never be able to hold a job that is not menial and repetitive, you will never be able to manage your own affairs? As a pp said, she just wants what is normal. It is not so easy to accept your position in society when it is really so crap.

Also, she also sees other people with intellectual disabilities as 'weirdos'. A social worker told us that all her clients were the same - they all thought that it was everyone else that had the problem, not them. So I don't think the bil's position is that unusual.

Thank you, tryingtoleave, for a much-needed reminder. I'm startled to notice that I'd got so caught up in thoughts of 'empowerment' and the like - I don't mean specifically in this thread - that I'd forgotten respect actually includes respecting a person's limitations, not just their potentials.

You reminded me of the office 'helper' (surely most big offices have some?) who insists she should have the same job as one of the hotshots and doggedly applies for promotion. You cannot say, to someone so clearly unaware of the differences, "You're wasting your time 'cause you're thick!" It wouldn't only be cruel; she wouldn't even believe you. Good manners take many forms and I appreciate the nudge :)

Any news OP? Hope all is going well.

Good point tryingtoleave - A much needed reminder that we are not the experts. But it is important to note that your sister has had involvement with social workers and perhaps the OP's family could benefit from this too- at least to inform of all the options.

I wouldn't....violence and sex chat...no. Your first responsibility is your DC.

Argh I just wrote out the world's longest post/update and it didn't post!

I'm here with DC1, DH is there with BIL and DC2, everything's going okay in the respective houses. I wasn't expecting anything dramatic to happen with BIL - but DH has stepped up and taken some responsibilty and MIL has seen that we are prepared to help and BIL has seen that his brother wants to spend time with him.

I feel quite positive about DH spending his (or most of his), allocated holiday time with BIL. We tend to take UK holidays anyway and MIL lives somewhere rural the DCs love to be. I would be happy to spend time at MIL's with DH, the DCs and BIL so she could get some time out. It's not going to work longterm of course but I feel like it would be a reasonable compromise while we do work out something for the future.

I've been thinking a lot about BIL and his life. DH and I had a chat about it the other night. BIL's life is, basically, he plays computer games, goes on the internet (porn or forums for the games he plays and TV shows he watches), smokes, feeds the pets, chats to MIL if she's around, eats dinner or makes himself a sandwich, watches TV with a few beers, goes to bed.

DH says "but lots of people live like that", and actually yes they do and we even know a couple (a friend whose DH fell into a depression while unemployed and the teenage sons of some of my parents' friends). But DH seems to think that because some people live like that it's okay for BIL.

I don't know for sure, but I have an uneasy feeling that DH mentally 'writes off' people with developmental delays or disabilities or MH issues. Because that's what he's seen done to BIL, of course, but it makes me feel so... angry and conflicted. I remember how DH delt with my PND (he was completely unsupportive). I wonder how he'd've acted if one of our DCs had been born with challenges or become disabled (which might even happen, one day).

We need to talk about it a LOT. BIL needs an advocate and DH needs to come up with a plan with MIL and 'we'll deal with it when it happens' is NOT good enough.

tryingtoleave your post really resonated with me, it sounds like your sister and BIL are very similar. If you're still around, could I ask what your family's plan for the future is, if you have one?

He sounds like he's in partial denial, if there is such a thing. StepSIL was like this with MIL. They live near to her and see her at least once a week. When we found out how bad her dementia had becomes (wandering around unwashed, smelly, in tatty clothes) we talked to sSIL who said "we thought we'd deal with it when there was a crisis" - wtf!!!

Your dh sounds a little like that. Waiting for something to happen doesn't work because situations tend to deteriorate slowly and it takes someone outside to see how bad it is, at which point it has already become a massive problem and much harder to sort out. You need the right agencies monitoring from an early stage (ideally about 15 years ago) as they are the one's who will pick up quickly on what is going on and they know how quickly things can deteriorate.

OP, well done. You sound incredibly together about it all. I think your analysis is very sound.

Hopefully it will evolve - who knows, but I do think what you say about your DH illustrates his own conflicted views. It can't be easy for any of you. What's clear is you are all trying to do your best. I hope you can work through it.

I don't think any reasonable person could fault your support for your DH. But ultimately, there will come a time when he has to put his own family first. I think he'll probably come to see that too.

But top marks for your patience and tolerance. I think you have shown yourself to be a very good person indeed, and your DH and his family are lucky to have you.

We had 3 adults with learning disabilities 2 doors away in a supported living house. There was a married couple, but sadly he died 2 years ago, so now just 2 adults.
They are very much part of the community and we all keep an eye out for them.
Would something like that work?
I think it a huge take on for you and dh.

The current situation sounds sad for your BiL too - surely he would get more out of life if he had more opportunities for interaction with the outside world, chances to meet people, make friends, maybe even do some kind of meaningful work. But that will only happen if his family acknowledge his limitations and let him access the various provisions still available (before they all get cut...).

Would your DH be more likely to do something about it now if you made him look at it from that perspective?

OP, haven't read the whole thread, just parts of it, I'm just writing to add my support. I've experienced situations like this, and you are so right not to take on the care of this individual. You would be setting yourself and your family up for years of misery, and it isn't your responsibility. I'm sorry for the guy, but then I am sorry for lots of peole, does not mean I would allow tham to move into my home with my children! Really, please fon't let anyone make you feel guilty for saying no, there is no future in saying yes.

sonotready
i have an idea of how your feeling... my db has servere learning difficulties he has no concept of danger cannot read/write but will talk to everyone...

our mum use to tell me and my dt that she 'had' us so we could look after our bro as he was our responsability...she was not happy when i got married and cried for days when we fell pregnant as it was not the plan she had.

now db is 36 he lives in residential carehome with 6 other people simular to his abilities he is very busy with horse riding clubs days out /evening discos/cinema etc.. none of which my mum could provide.

the homes around...or i think th pc term is supported living :0) that what are availble now are hugley different to ten years and even five years ago we have just moved my brother.

i would also add this should be looked at sooner rarther than later there is not unlimited spaces for good homes your dh wont one day be able to say thats it _
their is procedue to follow and its a long drawn out process... it took 3 years to find a place where the days are full and my brother is cared for and happy. please find him a forever home sooner rarther than later you db anb mil are both missing out.

feel free to pm me if you have any questions

YANBU. Your BIL needs specialist care. The tendancy toward violence and the porn habit means he is a danger to your children.

Your BIL is an adult, but it sounds like your MIL has babied him, on account of his LDs.

I would definitely put my foot down and refuse to have him to stay until he's had a good few months of specialist help.

coffeedog; I have just read your post with great interest. I have a son whose issues sound like your DB and as he/my other ds/and us get older I do find myself more and more concerned about what will happen when we are unable to care for him in our home.

My eldest DS (who doesn't have SN) has been informed that he will more than likely have to become his advocate/legal guardian in the future but we as parents are not expecting him to care for his brother directly, but as his brother we would expect him to 'look out for him' if anything was to happen to DH and myself.

So, my question to you is how do you feel at being in the role of advocate for your brother? Am I asking too much of my other DS?

haven't read the whole thread.

i don't think you are unreasonable in the slightest. i couldn't do it myself, not as a sahm with children in the house and on a long term basis. i just couldn't.

it sounds like he needs to get into a supported living scheme of some sort. my down's second cousin has started living in one. it's semi independent living really and it comes with 'work' placements. she seems very happy and her parents though they love her very much and she comes home various weekends etc seem so much lighter. she's about 20 now. 20 years is a long time to care full time for someone and they all deserved life to move on, her especially.

there is a massive difference to being an advocate and his full time carer. which is what mum wanted. we were always made to feel guilty for the things we had/did as kids as well.
its great now that i an go and get him for a few hours ( if he wants) but it is hard work and a massive releif i can drop him back. we can raise problems he has etc... he has an advocate provided for him by our council _ chap is very good they go out have a coffee beer or go bowling and talk through anything that is worring him.

cricketballs _ how old is your dc my db went to a residental home at 19 after me and ds had a hard talk with our parents. its a long road but me and my db get on much better now

hes 12; but as he gets older it does weigh more and more on what the future will be for him after he leaves school/when he no longer wants/can live at home

cricketballs my second cousin seems really happy in her supported living place. there are places and schemes out there maybe it would reassure you to find out about them now so you have ideas about the future rather than just worries?

coffedog - thats really terrible that your mum made you feel that way. My older DB has severe and profound multiple disabilites, but my mum always (from a very young age), told me that she did NOT have me to care for him - all that was expected from me was that I look out for him and be his champion/advocate. I can honestly say that I have never resented him in anyway - its a testament to you that you still have a close relationship with your brother and have not turned away from the pressure and resbonsibility placed on you.

I think this is relevant to your situation OP, as since my Mum died suddenly7 years ago, the situation has taken a lot lot time, work and heartache. We had certain plans in plans already for DB, but I would urge your husband to RIGHT NOW start planning for the day when his mum will not be around. My Dad copes pretty well now (with ALOT of support/homecare/respite/day services etc), but I am exploring options all the time re the future. It IS a big responsibility - my friends are great, but they don't really understand the pressure I am under a lot of the time, but your DH needs to educate himself quickly with the options available.

Your BIL needs a new social worker assesment - this should be requested as a matter of urgency as the current situation is breaking down and BIL is vunerable. Plans can then be made for supported living etc. These short term plans re helping out MIL are fine but are really not the answer long terms.

CoffeeDog That is awful that your mum made you feel that way

i was hard but were over it now and i had to learn to put mylittle family first and be ok about it.

my brother is happier in his residential home than he would be at home with an eldely parent

op mil should do what is right for her son not for her. op you should be very clear and vocal in what you are willing to do and what you are not.

my db has injured my kids and attacked me when pregnant i know not to leave him alone with my kids my mum dosnt think its a problem as he dosnt mean to hurt them iuswim and will always take his side ( he was upset a mecanic was looking at mums car and shoved me aside on/down stairs when 7mths pregnant with dt)

i would be worried if he came to you it would be under you mil rules?

Just wondering op going back to something you said about bil saying he wanted to use your phone/laptop for angry birds but actually using them for porn and ordering off amazon. Them dp and mil saying it was your fault for letting him as it was obvious. (to them...)

Anyhow I was just wondering if anyone told your bil off for doing this, if you were able to cancel any orders or have the goods arrived anyway and is bil being allowed to keep the stuff. Ie has he been told off or have mil/dh effectively told you off and not let him know that what he did was wrong nor made him suffer any punishment or consequences as a result of what he did and thereby enabling his wrong behaviour.

If things had got really bad with your mil then maybe you could at that if she wants bil to be treated normally then you will - by reporting bil to the police... Her choice - that or get SS in to assess. Makes you the baddy for a bit but might also male her realise that she can't have it all her own way! A last resort and maybe not a threat you'd carry through but something that might make her think.

The other half of our semi is a home for adults with lds.

They each have their own bedsit with a shared kitchen and bathroom on each floor. They have a manager type person who has a flat in the building, so there's always someone there. There is an office which is manned during normal working hours. There are carers and other professionals who visit daily, they have a music therapist, speech therapist and so on. The people who live there are just part of our community, they are very independent but there is always someone on hand to sort out problems, if required. It's a really good place.

I can well believe that it's hard to get a place somewhere like that. My cousin has lds but my uncle came from a rich family and so they bought a house for him, in which he still lives, but it was eventually taken over by the council. He shares the house with 3 others and they have a similar set-up to the one next door to us.

My cousin has a job on a farm, travels to and from work on the train every day, buys his own groceries and cooks simple meals. He'd never have been able to do that without the help of the professionals around him.

Your brother may be able to do all that for himself too, but you need to get the pros involved. You need to get his name down for a room in a house where he can learn, grow as a person and fulfil his potential, just like everybody else.

YANBU at all and it is unfair to think you and your children should have to put up with this, I think your DH should have stayed single if he knew he was going to end up having to babysit his brother for the rest of his life once the mother died.