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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to ask dog owners to keep their "friendly" dog away from my toddler?

232 replies

CultureMix · 29/12/2011 00:10

Happened again today, we were out for a walk with my two boys (2 and 4), when a big dog bounded along, with the owner miles behind, and charged right up to the boys. Not in an aggressive manner, more just curious, but had DS2 leaping into my arms screaming in fright and DS1 clinging onto my legs.

The owner called out from a distance "oh he's friendly it's alright". No it's not alright, you can tell my two kids are scared, the little one is hollering in terror. Come and get your mutt away right now... grrr.

I'm not against the right of anyone to walk their dogs nor even saying they should be on a lead (this was a local park so perfectly ok to let dogs run). And yes my boys haven't grown up used to dogs as we don't have one at home. But when it's obvious the dog is scaring the children, don't just laugh it off and make no effort to a) fetch the dog asap -that means run not stroll- and b) apologise. How would you like it if a huge creature the (relative) size of a donkey came galloping up to you looking like you'd make a tasty snack?

It's the "he's friendly' that drives me crazy, like that excuses anything and should of course reassure the children, or indeed guarantee that nothing will happen....

OP posts:
Cherriesarelovely · 29/12/2011 12:55

I am a HUGE dog fan as is my DD but I am also very considerate of other park users when walking our dog. In fact I usually avoid parks with families or small children because I know that many little ones don't like dogs. If we are out and I see children ahead I always put her on the lead just in case she goes over to them and they get upset (she is a very big dog).

However, just occasionally people have emerged from around a corner and I haven't seen them coming and so haven't put the lead on in time. In that case I do indeed apologise if my dog goes up to them and make sure I put her on the lead asap. I do think that it is important to try to help kids not scream and yell when they see a dog though. I know it is hard, lots of my friends kids don't like dogs but some of them come over to play and I put my dog behind a stair gate and they get to pat her and get used to her at their own pace. After an hour or so they are usually completely fine and the dog ignores them, in fact they usually end up dressing her up and giving her a part in their plays!

Peachy · 29/12/2011 12:58

YANBU

We are dog lovers; we don;t have one now but both did as children and would again if we ever can (rented house).

but DH was knocked off his feet yesterday by a dog off his lead and his owner just said 'he wants to play'- as DH lay in a puddle. WTAF?

Peachy · 29/12/2011 12:58

(not in park btw, on village main street)

minimuu · 29/12/2011 13:02

We haven't had one of these threads for ages Grin

As a dog owner and a dog behaviourist I do agree though that you ANBU at all. Dogs should be under control when out and about in public for their safety and so non dog loving public are not affected by their behaviour. (In the same way that DC's should as well)

The problem though with Ivy's solution is that is will actually make a untrained dogs behaviour worse or they will become fearful which will cause other unwanted and probably even more antisocial behaviour. Or if everbody uses them the pushy dogs will take no notice whatsover. They will cause most dogs distress however which will make dogs anxious around the general public - not great for the public or the dogs.

All owners need to take responsibility for their dogs and train them! All dogs are trainable I have yet to meet one that is not.

Dustinthewind · 29/12/2011 13:03

'humans exist side by side with dogs.'

We used to co-exist with other animals too, until they got in our collective way.
Let us bow our heads and remember the wild wolf, the magnificent bear, the delicious mammoth and the ferocious dragon.
All gone from this country.
You used to be able to keep pet leopards and cheetahs too. Now that would give those puppies something to think about.

Dustinthewind · 29/12/2011 13:04

'All owners need to take responsibility for their dogs and train them!'

Exactly. Now how do you suggest we get that to happen?

bemybebe · 29/12/2011 13:21

"You used to be able to keep pet leopards and cheetahs too. Now that would give those puppies something to think about."

What utter rubbish.

Dustinthewind · 29/12/2011 13:27
Sad

But leopards are so very beautiful, I would love one.

Dustinthewind · 29/12/2011 13:28

Mary Chipperfield used to have a couple of black panthers in her garden in Oxfordshire in the 70s. I remember the newspaper article.

OrmIrian · 29/12/2011 13:33

I'd love a panther.

Can't help thinking that they might do a bit more damage than the odd muddy coat and a slightly scared toddler though Grin

ivykaty44 · 29/12/2011 13:34

They will cause most dogs distress however which will make dogs anxious around the general public

Perhaps you could give the evidence as to why this would happen.

Dustinthewind · 29/12/2011 13:35

Possibly.
Smile
And I don't fancy my chances at keeping up with a cheetah off leash on the South Downs. They'd just have to have excellent recall.
I could get a whistle.

bemybebe · 29/12/2011 13:53

"They will cause most dogs distress however which will make dogs anxious around the general public

Perhaps you could give the evidence as to why this would happen."

ivykaty as your device is indiscriminate it will affect all the dogs in the proximity, thus confusing the well-behaved ones. I am not sure what is described as "unconfortable", usually such devices are not approved by professional dog trainers, not only because they are inhumane, but also because they are likely to encourage unwanted behaviours.

Dogs that are not sure of their environment can also turn aggressive. Is this the effect you would like to achieve?

Haziedoll · 29/12/2011 13:59

It does annoy me. Ds1 is nervous of dogs because of an over energetic dog when he was a toddler. Ds2 still loves dogs but wasn't happy when a dog jumped into his pushchair and ate his mini-milk. The dog owner was going "oh don't worry he won't hurt he just loves ice-cream". The dog also jumped up to me and covered in all sorts of filth Angry

D0oinMeCleanin · 29/12/2011 14:00

Is this the sort of evidence you wanted as to why negative reinforcements can often be dangerous when used to train animals?

I think those vets may, just possibly, have more of an idea about how pet dogs behave than a random poster on MN.

bemybebe · 29/12/2011 14:06

Fantastic article Dooin. Thank you!

Insomnia11 · 29/12/2011 14:15

I think it's a terrible shame for children to be scared of pets. They should be wary of dogs and always ask before they pet a strange one, but I would really being trying hard for them to get over any disproportionate fear, in the same way as if they had developed a fear of water or something. Dogs are part of life, and while there are certain places where they certainly should be on leads (i.e. most places) there are places where they are going to be allowed to run around otherwise they would not get the exercise they need.

toboldlygo · 29/12/2011 14:19

Oh look, Christmas is over, back to the dog-bashing threads. Hmm

Actually, YANBU. Dogs should not be approaching anybody, adult or child, without their express permission and invitation. I can't guarantee that mine wouldn't (one has a penchant for enthusiastically licking family toddlers) and so they stay on leads at all times in public spaces. It's not hard.

For what it's worth the whole "it's alright, he's friendly!" thing winds up us dog owners too. I have one dog with anxiety issues who absolutely does not want strange dogs coming up to him - we're working on it, he's improved a great deal but every time an over-enthusiastic dog gets right up in his face too quickly we're set back weeks of careful training and the poor sod becomes a howling, quivering wreck.

Excellent illustration here: My dog needs space

flapperghasted · 29/12/2011 14:35

I'm a dog lover, but my dd hated dogs when she was little. To her they were just big animals that she didn't know and couldn't trust and, on occasion, they were bouncing at her as if they wanted to eat her!

My girl is now nearly 11 and we have a lovely little pup who's placid and friendly but very, very bouncy. She's also nibbly, as her teeth are coming through, so that's not great for little ones.

As such, she's always kept on a lead and if she manages to get close to a child or adult, eg if we're in the woods and they pass by, and they approach her, I restrain her fully and I apologise. I say 'I'm so sorry, she's still a pup and we're waiting to train her'. She's booked in for socialisation/lessons from January (thank God!) and none of us can wait!

I love my pup and think she's totally adorable BUT I know I'm biased and not everyone feels the same. YANBU or over-protective OP. Not everyone loves dogs!

OrmIrian · 29/12/2011 14:40

Actually sod the panther! I'd go for a dragon given the choice. Also would earn maximum brownie points with DS2.

CurlyJims · 29/12/2011 14:56

YABU how are your children ever supposed to get over their fear of dogs if you encourage it... You could have taken the incident as an opportunity to socialise your children with dogs and teach them how to be cautious but not petrified of them. Perhaps if you don't want your kids around dogs then you shouldn't bring them to areas where dogs are allowed off the lead? Failing that you could also carry a giant wad of cotton wool to wrap them in whilst they are out and about :-)

Dustinthewind · 29/12/2011 15:06

'I'd go for a dragon given the choice.'

Charizard, I choose you!

minimuu · 29/12/2011 15:50

Ivy been off walking my dogs - had a great time and did not see anyone at all!

here is evidence on aside from Dooins link "They will cause most dogs distress however which will make dogs anxious around the general public "

here
and here
and here
and here
and here

Do you need more I can find loads no trouble at all.

But don't shoot me down I am fully on the side of trained dogs and that owners should accept responsibility for them. In fact I spend my whole working day on trying to do just that and sort out problems that have been caused by using aversives on dogs by the unknowing public.

Oblomov · 29/12/2011 16:16

both my ds's adore dogs and I am trying to teach them that they have to ask the owner, before they pet them. I am trying to teach respect without scaring them, but they are currently young, they naively think all dogs are lovely and love being stroked. It is hard to teach young children the respect they need for dogs.

ivykaty44 · 29/12/2011 16:28

I have looked at all but one of the links - nowhere can I find anything written about the dazer causing distress to dogs or hurting them in any of the links.

All the links seem to be about training - I am not out to train a dog.

Can you find me a link to quantify that the dazer will cause distress to the dog and make them anxious around the public?

If a dazer is going to cause distress to most dogs then surely they should be banned?