to ask dog owners to keep their "friendly" dog away from my toddler?

[CultureMix]

Happened again today, we were out for a walk with my two boys (2 and 4), when a big dog bounded along, with the owner miles behind, and charged right up to the boys. Not in an aggressive manner, more just curious, but had DS2 leaping into my arms screaming in fright and DS1 clinging onto my legs.

The owner called out from a distance "oh he's friendly it's alright". No it's not alright, you can tell my two kids are scared, the little one is hollering in terror. Come and get your mutt away right now... grrr.

I'm not against the right of anyone to walk their dogs nor even saying they should be on a lead (this was a local park so perfectly ok to let dogs run). And yes my boys haven't grown up used to dogs as we don't have one at home. But when it's obvious the dog is scaring the children, don't just laugh it off and make no effort to a) fetch the dog asap -that means run not stroll- and b) apologise. How would you like it if a huge creature the (relative) size of a donkey came galloping up to you looking like you'd make a tasty snack?

It's the "he's friendly' that drives me crazy, like that excuses anything and should of course reassure the children, or indeed guarantee that nothing will happen....

YANBU is be annoyed by the dog owner , however YABU in allowing your DD to react like that, screaming will only entice the dog more.

I have a bouncy lab and when out walking if I see young children I will call the dog back to me for a number of reasons including

Children may not like dogs , especially if no dog is in their group.
Children like dogs can be unpredictable - start holding a stick out to my lab and she will think you are going to throw it for her and start getting very bouncy !
Can't be arsed with hassle when out on peaceful walk with my dog.

lol at your "huge hairy teenager " Dustinthewind. I imagine some sort of Gruffalo...

When younger, my son always had a stick or two in his hand. They were his, not intended to entice anyone else.
If your dogs gets bouncy, it needs more control.
Best dogs I ever knew were a couple of gun dogs, fantastic control and recall. But that takes more effort and consistency and training on the part of the owner than many dog lovers are prepared to put in.
Wait a decade, do you think the situation will improve for dogs or not over the next ten years? More or fewer restrictions? What sort of pressures do you think will effect the changes?

'lol at your "huge hairy teenager " Dustinthewind. I imagine some sort of Gruffalo...'

Good teeth and no warts. Think werebear instead.

I think YANBU however as an owner of 2 very large dogs I think a ridiculous amount of people smother their children and do not encourage them to get used to dogs. Much of this I believe is a projection of their own fears.

Yanbu OP. Cannot understand why any responsible dog owner would think it was OK for their dog to bound up to a child and frighten them.

Dog owner here. My dog is not allowed to greet any human (or dog for that matter) without my permission. If I see families with children she is recalled and put on the lead immediately. Not because she would mither or jump up, but because it puts the approaching people at ease when they see a big black dog that is under control.
The lack of awareness of poor behaviour and entitlement issues of some dog owners is just breath taking.

Threads like this is also the reason why I go out of my way to walk my dog where there are no other people around, and that includes people with their annoying dogs.

YANBU. Some dog owners are, sadly, fuckwits who don't bother wth basic training. A dog shouldn't be running up to anyone while off lead. If it can't be trusted, it should be on a line. I say that as a dog owner.

but he's your werebear..

Lol at the idea she "let" her 2 year old scream when scared. If I 2 year old is scared they will scream, not sure how that can be prevented!

YANBU

A child being frightened by a dog running up to them doesn't necessarily mean that he is a smothered PFB whose irrational fear is being pandered to by his parents. My DS loves dogs but can still get frightened if a big one runs up unexpectedly. For that matter, I once got a bit flappy when a relatively small dog suddenly swerved and came sprinting flat out towards DS and I when we were sitting in a park. It was such a sudden, fast move that there wasn't way to assess the dog's friendliness or otherwise and my instinctive reaction was to snatch up then 1 year-old DS and jump to my feet. I got the 'oh he's friendly' response from the owner, but by then I had already got a bit of a fright. I am not generally remotely frightened of dogs.

Children also have very different temperaments and not every child can be jollied out of a fear as soon as it appears. DS's cousin is quite sensitive about various things and went through a phase of being terrified of dogs. There was no point doing the whole 'oh look, he's friendly' thing as it just made him scream and cry more. He wouldn't even watch DS pat a dog from a distance without getting hysterical. It had to be dealt with slowly and carefully and not at a pace decided by some random dog owner in the park who didn't think his fear was legitimate. He still isn't keen but his reaction can be managed to some extent.

It is not uncommon for children to have an extreme reaction simply because they don't have e same powers of reasoning that we have and can't do a mental risk assessment. Adult dog owners are capable of appreciating this and it would reduce the problem if they simply made sure they could call a bounding dog away.

Oh, absolutely zoo, and I love him to bits. He's a fantastic teenager, polite, does his college and homework, shares the housework and is generally a delight. If he didn't eat his own bodyweight in food a day, he'd be perfect.
Could I live in the same house with a huge, out-of-control, selfish and inconsiderate man?
No. So he was shown what was acceptable and what wasn't since he was cub-sized. Took a lot of time and effort, just like it did with his sister.

YANBU

My ds (8)was bitten by a dog so he's petrified of them.One of his grandmas had her coat ripped on a walk,the other was bitten on a paper round.

We were on a lovely walk Xmas eve when 2 dogs ran up growling at each other,jumping,pushing into him,knocking,racing round said son.He was white with fear and hysterical.The large,jolly hockysticks family ambling up behind said they're just playing.

Thanks,Happy Xmas to you too.

We're seriously considering taking a stick in the future.If any dog makes contact with any of my children ever again I will be using it.Dp would have used the sole of his boot if he'd caught up. Said son has a dog dazer bought kindly by his grandfather to help him feel less vulnerable which helps at times.

No dog owner has the right to presume their dogs won't terrify or inflict their slobbering,germ infested,teeth owning animals on the general public.Every adult and child has the right to feel how they want to feel and not to have their space invaded or feel intimidated.

Thankfully they're tightening up laws on biting-2 years prison sentence I believe at long last.I think the general public needs to keep the pressure up re anti social and intimidating behaviour too.

Blimey he sounds lovely - I wouldn't mind if he was a werewolf will all those qualities.

'We're seriously considering taking a stick in the future.If any dog makes contact with any of my children ever again I will be using it.Dp would have used the sole of his boot if he'd caught up.'

You are now likely to get a number of dog owners pointing out that this will enrage their animal who will beat you in a fight and probably bite you if they feel threatened by a stick or a boot. That the dog can move faster than you and has more defences, so you and yours will get hurt and it will be your fault.
I disagree with this attitude, but it is usually the response.

I don't think it's the 'dog' as such that's the problem here, it's the object approaching at speed that I suspect triggers a primeval flight or fight response. As adults/older children, we've learnt that not everything that approaches us at speed is dangerous but toddlers haven't learnt that yet, hence the triggering of a fear response and 'get me out of here'.

I would be interested to know for those people whose children don't like dogs running at them (my DS included), how do the same children react if the dog is sitting still or walking on a lead on the opposite side of a road or if the dog is asleep? DS doesn't like dogs running at him, but he likes pointing them out if he sees them walking or if they are sitting and he can walk up to them, which I do encourage, with the owners permission.

Dogs off leads ruined our summer holiday :( Every single beach we went to was FULL of dogs running everywhere. One of them ran full pelt up to my 3yo DS and knocked him flying and after that he was terrified. The owners were lovely and couldn't have apologised more but they were the only ones who were nice about it. After that we chose beaches that either had dogs banned or ones where they had to be on leads and guess what? They were STILL running everywhere. I see this so often (at the park we were at yesterday, for example) and it drives me CRAZY. There are always some dog owners who think the rules don't apply to them and that they can take their dog anywhere On holiday I had a screaming row with one woman who'd brought her dog to a dog-free beach. I went out of my way to find a beach where my children didn't have to be scared and she brought her dog to the one beach that she was supposed to stay away from.

yanbu
both my ds's (3 and 6) were at park with their nana dog came up to ds1 and started circling him and barking, ds1 tried to get away but got tripped up by dog, ds1 led on floor with dog still circling him and barking, nana goes and picks him up, in process of doing this dog goes over to ds2 (3) an does exactly the same to him, ds2 trys to get away and gets tripped up and dog is circling him and barking. Nana picks both ds's up who are by now both screaming and crying and trys to reasuure them that dog is just being friendly and thinks thry are playing. Where is dog owner in all this? Up the path watching not really botheres!!!
Now i dount particularly like dogs but have been doing my hardest to not pass this on but now cos oif this incident my boys are terrified of dogs. I have been working with them to overcome this by talking to dos owners at school playground and asking if we can pet their dog. This has helped but both boys are still scared by any dog who comes near us wherever we are.
My approach to dogs is to tell them that most dogs are very friendly and as long as the owmer and me say its ok they can pet the dog but they musnt pet a dog without asking as some dogs don't like to be petted,
WRT a dog running up to them again i just say that the dog is trying to get them to play and if they dont want to the have to stand still not making any noise as if they try to move away trhe dog might think they are playing.
Im quite happy for dogs to be not on leads in parks etc as long as the owner has full control over them and they would go straight back if owner called them. This is not just because children might be scared but also as others have said children are unpredictacle aswell and might (un)intentially hurt the dog.

cairnterrier, yes, my DCs (and me) aren't as frightened if the dog is on a lead. But we are still wary because the owner might suddenly let the dog off the lead. I have tried to get the DCs to stand still if a dog runs, explaining that if they run away the dog will think it's a game and chase them even more and they understand but they can't physically do it. It's an instinctive human reaction to run away from something that's scaring you (the adrenaline 'fight or flight' thing).

jocie, circling and barking is not playful behaviour, it is dominate territorial behaviour.

Just on why kids are terrified of dogs these days:
Mine is terrified because when he was the age of the Op's kids a large dog bounded up and jumped on him and scratched him on the chest with its claws.

So he isnt scared because I havent trained him. He's scared because someone didnt control their dog.

This idea that dogs and children should respect each others rights as though they are equals just staggers me. Children (and adults) have the right to run and play in public spaces without dogs coming up to them or having to avoid dog shit. Dogs are not the equal of people.

''When younger, my son always had a stick or two in his hand. They were his, not intended to entice anyone else.
If your dogs gets bouncy, it needs more control.''

Dustinthewind - that's why I call my dog back

YANBU - some of us don't have dogs / know people with dogs. My ds age then nearly three had his first two experiences with dogs, one small then the second a big one last year. we were having a snack in the park when tiny dog appeared and clamboured all over him. Ds screamed in pure shock. That same week same happened with bigger dog. It ran back again ten minutes later as owners hadn't put it on lead. not a comfort for them to say sorry he is harmless, ds didn't know. That was his first experience of dogs. Not sure how would be now, as we still don't know anyone with a dog and have avoided snacking in the park.

It is bloody scary to have a dog come charging towards you. For one, it's hard to judge a dogs intentions when it's running. A stationary dog gives you clues (tail wagging, ears up etc), but a running dog...not so much. I have a little spaniel pup, and he can run like a bullet. He's all flapping ears and gums, and gravity working on all that floppy skin can make him look demonic. Fact is, if every off lead dog was owned by responsible owners, then no one would need to be frightened. But they aren't. Twice I've been walking with my pup, who has been on a lead, and he has been aggressively approached by other dogs. The owners of those dogs have then said 'Oh, yeah, Fido doesn't really like other dogs. Or bikes/buggies/mobility scooters etc etc'. Yet still they have the dog loose. So you can't trust that every dog who runs up to you is friendly. And one persons 'friendly' is another persons intimidating. It's just good manners to put your dog on a lead when you see other people, unless you have rock solid recall and 'leave' commands. I generally like dogs, but when an English Bull Terrier leapt on my back out of nowhere I very nearly wet myself. I was also flattened, because 8 stone of affectionate EBT is a lot of dog.

btw I am in my 40's and still get scared if an unknown dog runs at me. Who wouldnt be!