to want my boyfriend to propose to me

[woahthere]

We have been together for 8 years. I love him very much. We have a lovely little boy together and he is a great father to my other 2 children. I am very very lucky, BUT, I wish that he would propose, we have discussed it and I know he is quite a quiet person and i have said that if we got married we could do it low key because i know he would hate the whole big shebang. AIBU to want to make it official. I feel let down that all of my friends, his brother etc are getting married and I still never get that feeling of joy of having been asked. Every special occasion I hope that he will ask me and he never does and secretly it really hurts.

I do think that these men who won't marry their partners and stall about it, despite knowing that their partners want marriage, are pricks. If you've got one of these who also dangles the possibility of The Proposal over your head like a doggy treat, dump him now, he considers you his inferior. There have been threads about men who get their own way all the time by hinting that they 'might' be about to propose, and then claiming that the woman somehow 'spoiled the moment'.
If someone has a strong ideological/political/philosophical objection to the institution of marriage and says so clearly, that's fair enough. We are entitled to our opinions. But the bloke who is just vague about the whole thing and carries on with his life despite repeated requests from his partner to get married or TTC - well that bloke is basically demonstrating that the partner is 'Will Do For Now' but he wants to keep his options open and/or keep her in line by the threat that he might leave her.

LydiaWykham... I disagree. Men DO NOT HAVE THE POWER. The woman can choose just as well not to marry. I wouldn't have children outside marriage; that's my own personal choice, not conferred on anybody else, but I'm resolute about it. I have the power.

I do think that only a woman can be made vulnerable by having children and that she's never more vulnerable than when she's pregnant and/or bringing up young child(ren). It does make me sad that some women willingly entrust their futures and their children's futures to a partner, abdicating any responsibility for ensuring their welfare long-term.

You don't have to be married, not at all, but if you are wise, you'll do all of the other legal things that will protect and safeguard you that marriage automatically confers. To not do those things and willingly allow children to be born is, in my opinion, the height of recklessness.

Regardless of the century, I think the meaning behind it rings true for a lot of people...if they already have everything a marriage can offer them, why bother actually getting married if they don't want to?

The implication is that women should withold sex, or domestic service or children in order to force men into marriage. Don't thwt sound pretty icky to you?

It doesn't imply that at all to me

It implies (to me) that there is no point in marrying someone if you are already married to them in every single sense of the word.

So, should you live with someone before marriage worra?

I don't like that saying, though I can see it's relevance to this discussion. If a man (or indeed a woman if applicable) already has all the benefits of marriage from his point of view, without any of the costs or financial obligations, why would he want to change the situation?

The thing is though, if he cares for his partner, he'd surely want her to have the benefits and security of marriage from her (or his, assume gender-neutral pronouns for all of this, because it can work both ways!) point of view if she wants and needs them. If he's not bothered about that, he's not much of a partner.

I guess that's why the saying annoys me, because it implies men are entirely selfish and would only marry if there's some direct benefit to them (e.g. getting regular sex or whatever) and couldn't possibly actually care about their partner's wellbeing. Though sadly the reality probably is that lots of men (and women) are like that...

Yes KissMy if that's what a couple wants to do.

But if marriage is so very important to one of them, I don't understand whey they would then get a mortgage and have a family without marrying first.

Isn't there a statistic that says once you've been together for over x number of years the chances of getting married decrease.

YANBU

I thinking people who aren't married are fibbing (or deluded) about not wanting to be married. If confers much better legal and monetary protection which absolutely should be a consideration if you have a child(ren) together.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe - I meant (and put badly) that woman in relationships give this power away and act like it's not in their control. Woman are allowed to propose too. Proposals without rings are just as valid. Weddings without fancy cakes and dresses are just as legal.

(wanders off wondering how anyone can be brave enough to face childbirth but not brave enough to tell their 'D'P they should have the decency to bind themselves to the family unit legally, emotional commitments mean feck all if they get hit by a bus)

Agree with Worra. Often if you live with a guy and he has everything on a plate he won't marry you. I did not live with my DH before marriage. We are both Catholics and some of my friends teased me about being old fashioned. But I think us girls have to become more old fashioned ie not living with men before marriage if we want them to marry us iyswim.

I would question whether he wants to stay with you long term if he won't marry you. Unless he has an extreme objection to marriage on principle for some reason.

My story was very similar to chesty's When we were just a couple, both earning, "marriage" didn't seem very important to me.

Roll on a few years and we'd moved in together, had baby no.1, still a great relationship. But me being the liberated young lady I was hadn't felt the need to get wed first. Over time, though, this started to feel important to me, having read a couple of stories about the legalities of having children when unmarried. And I started to feel slightly envious of the women whose partners had made this ultimate commitment to them (I know that this is not important to everyone, but it was starting to be to me). So I started dropping some heavy hints, not realising that most men are no good at taking hints.

Eventually one Xmas eve we were enjoying a glass of wine, and watching something on the tv where a couple got engaged. On the spur of the moment I said to him: Do you really not want to get married? I mean I would really like to have the same surname as the rest of you before dc1 starts school! We chatted about it - decided that we really should be married but we would only have a small ceremony (but I did have a fab dress!). Went shopping for the ring the day after Boxing Day and then announced it New Years eve.

So, there was no romantic proposal on one knee for me at the top of the Eiffel Tower, but I don't mind. And no big wedding either, but we've been married 6 years now and have a really good marriage.

I know personally of several women who have had to have 'the conversation' with their partner about marriage. And by 'the conversation' he has to know you mean business. I know one woman who had her bags packed and was ready to walk out the door - but she had no children yet, so it's a different situation to OP's. But she got her proposal.

OP - my advice to you is to have a serious conversation about it - only you can decide how much it bothers you. Do you want the romantic proposal and the big Wedding Day? Or the marriage? (I know you can have both). If you decide not to push the marriage thing, then please ensure that you put the necessary legalities in place (will/life insurance/next of kin etc) and make sure the dc will be financially secure should he leave/or if either of you die.

It's not only rings that are completely optional. The froo froo dresses, venues, cakes, wedding lists and formal nonsense are all optional and unnecessary. It's perfectly possible to marry quietly, and cheaply. .

People always say, you don't know someone until you live with them. So I'm wondering how you would know you were compatible etc before getting hitched. I definitely want to get married before children and told my DP this a couple of weeks ago and he looked [shocked] but I wouldn't marry him before living with him.

I told MIL to prepare a room for DP today. I then explained that if he didn't marry me by our 20th anniversary she was getting him back. DP said I was being a bit harsh, to which I replied, "you have had all the free milk you're going to get, matey, now it's time to pay for the cow!" PILS had hysterics! They think I'm kidding!!!

I lived with DH before marriage, for about 6 months. But I wouldn't have had children without being married. It would have felt wrong to me personally, though I don't tend to think anything of it if others don't. Luckily DH felt the same way. Obviously if I had accidentally fallen pregnant before marriage then we would have been very happy to be parents and embraced it, but we wouldn't have started trying, or stopped trying not to before we were married.

We had a fairly short engagement by modern standards it seems, less than 6 months, and it amazed me how many women assumed I was the one driving this. One colleague even asked in all seriousness whether I was "rushing him down the aisle before he changed his mind". She genuinely couldn't believe that he had asked me because he wanted to marry me, I hadn't talked him into it. Similarly, he wanted a short engagement too because like me, he wanted to get engaged to get married...not just to be engaged.

Seeker - "The implication is that women should withold sex, or domestic service or children in order to force men into marriage. Don't thwt sound pretty icky to you?"

Witholding domestic service isn't very icky at all. And actually if marriage and its legal protection is important to you, I think refusing to have(witholding) children is perfectly reasonable and eminently sensible.

what excellent advice solidgoldbrass shall i leave him immediately? a bit over the top dont you think. I think we can all safely assume that my boyfriend isnt a 'prick' because...well because im telling you hes not, and that should maybe be trusted.
I feel a little bit like Im being portrayed as a moron though, and I dont think I am, or reckless. We do have life insurance although no wills, but thats as much my responsibility as his. I do literally think its the whole idea of the actual 'marrying' bit that makes him not ask.
When we had been together for about a year I did have the conversation with him about wanting to be married and have a baby, I made it very clear that I wanted these things and that if he didnt then he was to not waste my time, but then to be honest, life unfolds and happens in ways that you dont plan and then other things happen that make a proposal seem less important. But it is still important and I know that. I think he does too really. I do think its time to broach the subject again soon as its clear that Im not being unreasonable to want it. And for the record Im not particularly for a big princess wedding or expensive ring, but it would be lovely to be made to feel as special as I know my friends have been on their wedding days.

You said, OP, that you had to talk him into having a baby, no? You're the one who feels hurt that he won't propose. He's not as kind as you portray, not in my opinion anyway. I can understand why you're prickly about the responses that you've had but I think generally people are supportive of you. Nobody's called you any names.

I agree that life 'unfolds' but disagree that things 'happen' to you. When you don't want things under your control to happen, you really can prevent them. As it seems - with the prospect of marriage. He doesn't want it.

Thanks Vivi Like you, I'm also a control freak (mahoosive!) and I think what made it worse was the fact that I had no control over this aspect of our relationship. I asked in LY 2004 - let's just say it didn't end well. Everything was taken as a joke so i think the combination of having very little control and feeling utterly humiliated was crushing. I don't know how we didn't split then. For all my control freakery he was the one who instigated moving in together (he hated living back with his parents - had been away for 6 years but moved back to be closer to me), and of course i just felt like a convenience (essentially I felt like a housemate who would pay half the bills, cook his dinner and provide sex ). He otoh thought my insecurity was hilarious and that he would do it when he wanted to.

Anyway, i'm wittering - but talking about it to him helped no end. The difficult part was plucking up the courage to do so!

Out of curiosity, I do agree that the legal side of marriage is important, but isn't the idea of marriage and love and commitment be enough to explain why you want to get married rather than persuade by putting together a business case? We had everything in place with a solicitor anyway but it still didn't change how i felt. Maybe i'm just bring a naive hopeless romamtic, but what would you do if he said he would prefer to see a solicitor? Isn't it better to be open from the outset? (i'm not criticising, i'm just curious!).

woahthere I felt exceptionally special on my wedding day, but we didn't need to spend much. We had a lovely ceremony, immediate family and close friends only and hired out the upstairs of a (very nice) restaurant for a meal afterwards.

you misunderstand, i did not say anybody had called me names and i do thank for supportive responses, however, by saying i should leave him, that he is waiting for something better, that i have been reckless, that it sounds as though no life insurance is in place, then this does make me look a bit stupid. But then again, those are your opinions and you are perfectly entitled to them, I suppose I did ask after all...

I always said I wouldn't live with anyone before I got married. If a DP wanted that sort of commitment, it meant marriage to me. However, I then fell pregnant unexpectedly to a fairly casual boyfriend. We moved in together a few weeks before our DD was born. We'd had a very brief discussion about marriage while I was pregnant, but only along the lines of "a long term commitment means marriage to me", which he agreed with.

Twenty months later, DS came along (planned this time!), but no discussion about marriage. Knowing my DP, this could carry on indefinitely, which I wasn't happy with. So one day, a few weeks after DS was born, I said "This is absolutely not a proposal, but I don't want to remain unmarried forever. No response required, I'm just saying." A few weeks later, he proposed on Christmas Eve, with a ring and everything!!! (I know, very unoriginal timing.)

It would have annoyed the life out of me if we were still unmarried, even though I really didn't have a leg to stand on if he hadn't wanted to. So although the "why buy the cow..." expression is awful, unfortunately, it's very apt in our situation.

So I agree with everyone who says that if marriage is important to you, don't move in together and don't get yourself up the duff accidentally on purpose because you were 35 and your ovaries were shrivelling up.

I was very firm with DH that I wouldn't consider living with him until we were married. I have a child from a previous rl and only worked p/t, so cohabiting brought lots of financial disadvantages to me (losing CTC, HB) and disruption to DD, so it was important for me to have that security of marriage before giving up our home.

I think we did a lot of learning about each other in the early stages of the marriage, but we didn't really need to know we were compatible by living together before marriage. We'd been together for five years, had a taster of each other's quirks from staying over at each others' homes and holidays, but the important thing was that we were both committed to the marriage, so whatever little conflicts arose in those early months, we knew we had to work it out because we'd already made the decision to do so when we got married.

I think it would have been too easy to walk away if we'd just had a trial of living together, and that would have been awful for DD and I. I know other LPs who have met and moved in with men in similar circumstances and they were left with nothing when the relationship ended, whereas those who married were at least able to stay in the house.