AIBU re huffing child response?

[rootietootie]

Long story short, on Christmas day all five children and five grandchildren were at my mums house. This is a very rare occurrence that we are all the same house at the same time so mum wanted a photo of us all. Just at that moment brothers DD1 (6) went into a major huff (I think this had been off and on all morning) due to the fact that she thought her younger brother got a better xmas present. Due to huffing she refused to speak to anyone or come to get her photo taken. I cant stress the importance of everyone being in the photo for my mum. Mum tried to persuade her to come through but was rudely ignored. My brothers response? Just leave her. No discipline. Just leave her. Photo was taken without her and mum is really really disappointed, it kind of defeated the purpose of taking the photo iyswim. Im just so shocked at my brothers attitude towards it. Someone please come along and tell me the logic and purpose to his response because I dont understand it.

Part of life is also accepting that children are children - ie neurologically, psychologically, physiologically not adults. They can't be adults, they have to be children. Childhood is a time to learn how to control emotions. It's not inbuilt - it comes with normal and healthy attachments to carers, and normal and healthy boundaries - not from being forced to suppress emotion because it's not convenient for the adults around them to deal with. The adults who do, by the way, have the psychological, neurological and physiological ability to contain their own emotions.

And removing oneself from a high-stress situation in order to regain control of one's emotions is hardly 'throwing a tantrum'.

So much of what people label as 'good' behaviour in children is actually just 'convenient' behaviour for adults. If we stopped looking at every situation as a power play with adults being in control and having to exert that control at all times, and started looking at parenting as if it were a leadership role - with adults guiding children to socially acceptable behaviour because that's what's RIGHT - rather than because they're scared of the consequences - we'd have a much healthier society overall.

And I guess that's what it comes down to at the end of the day. I want my children to behave in socially and personally acceptable ways because they know that's the right thing to do - and why - rather than just because they're afraid of me. Because if they're just behaving because they're scared of me, the second my back is turned they're going to be testing the boundaries and breaking the rules...whereas if they're behaving because they know right from wrong, then they're going to do that regardless of who's watching.

All the family photos of my uncles wedding have me in them holding flowers above my head with catsbum face on me, I was 3 at the time

I agree with TamIAm .

This thread is a real eye opener for me. I'm certainly glad that I didn't have some of you for parents-I would find it very damaging the amount of control you think that you should have.
The DD was upset, the best way was to ignore her. Would the grandmother really want a photo where one person was forced? There was time-ignored she would have come round -it didn't have to be there and then.

You could talk to her calmly and quietly later.

Saying that you understood that she was upset but other people need to be thought about and not fair on grandma etc etc .........
Saying 'you stroppy madam-you will come this instant and have your photo taken and YOU WILL SMILE as if you mean it' isn't good parenting to me.

Thank you TamIam for expressing so well what I rbelieve about parenting but lose sight of sometimes.

TamIAm - what a brilliantly worded post. I agree wholeheartedly and I needed reminding of this too. Thank you xxx

Very interesting post TamIam - I would like to hear more from you

I have a 13 year old, any books or advice is welcome

A child of 6 should be able to exert an amount of self control though. We're talking about a child who will have been at school full time for two years. They have to behave at school, they are capable of behaving at home. A child who is tantruming because she is jealous, not one that has been hurt, or similar.

And the scared of the consequences - I have never used any form of 'violence' on either of my children, or shouted at them in anger on more than a couple of occasions. I expected them to behave properly, and to a certain extent they did. With allowances for age. But I would certainly have expected a 6 year old to be able to behave.

I wanted mine to behave in a socially acceptable way too. And they both knew what that was at that age.

Really agree with the way this thread has turned out especially TamIAm's POV but others like perception, yonder and 4madboys too.

I'm always hearing from people who say they hate confrontation when what they mean is that they're frightened of saying what they don't want to do.

You should never hurt anyone's feelings without good reason and maybe in this situation the little girl should apologise to her gran now she's calmed down.

But childhood is all about learning correct behaviour because it's the right thing to do - not doing things just because someone tells you.

"My mum would rather have had her in the pic crying than not at all, just so she could get a pic of all of us together"

wow! in light of that I'm on your brother's side!

sounds horrible! What kind of person would want a photo/momento of people being forced to do something they're unhappy to do?

Im not sure how you wanted your B to handle it , I know she was being huffy but if he made her go into the picture then she wouldve huffed and cried some more , and then it wouldve been worse for everybody especially to have a red faced snotty child in the picture , I guess her dad was just trying to defuse the situation by saying leave her in the huff ,

But childhood is all about learning correct behaviour because it's the right thing to do.

Which in this instance, was to stop tantrumming like a spoilt brat over a perceived present injustice, and go and have her photo taken.

My BIL was in this situation with his DD when she was about 5, refusing to be in a picture. He tried twice to get her in in, but she sat with a face like thunder, arms folded, big frown. Who would want that in a pic? So she was allowed out and a better one was taken without her.
Eventually she took herself back into the back of the pic pulling faces and the like.
I did not like the behaviour she was showing and, some on here are right in what they are saying 'best to not force her' 'teaches her to say no when she is older' but this DN is an attention seeking controlling little mare. She had no reason not to join in, just wanted to show she could control whether she was in in or not. Anyone elses feelings on the matter, especially her elderly Great Grandfather who was so so pleased to get the pic, was just not important to this child.
This backed up, on many other occasions (though I give BIL his credit, that day, he managed it as well he could) but it is learned behaviour that she shows on many occasions, because he lets her.
Thinks he is superior father to my DH because he lets things slide (yes he said as much to me ) but imo she needs a stronger hand, on many occasions. He only has her sometimes so just wants an easy life.
So I can understand where OP is coming from with her anger/frustration. I should imagine that this is not a one off misdemeanor?

A shame that the rest of the family didn't allow her, and him, more time to let her come round. So they were at fault for not doing their best to help their mum get the best pic they could. In saying that, I can understand the pressure when someone wants to go home.

"I'm sure she'll turn out to be a lovely well-balanced adult with that sort of sense of her own importance in the world"

hmmm yeah, raises a well rounded young women if they're thaught that if something makes them very uncomfortable and upset, they should do it anyway and put on a pretty smile rather than make a fuss - think about it!

she wasn't hurting anyone, being destructive etc. it was PHOTO that some controlling adult was insisting on - pretty childish of the adult if you ask me to WANT IT AND WANT IT NOW NO MATER WHAT ANYONE ELSE WANTS

To all the people who are saying "I would have disciplined her more" "She needs a firmer hand" etc etc - unless you live with those children 24/7 and are THEIR PARENT you just don't know.

I tried with DD a very very firm hand, pulling her for everything, carrying her out screaming and putting in her room, punishments of no tv, grounding, toys away, and my mother spent a week when she was visiting smacking DD everytime she misbehaved.

None of it worked. None of it.

The best thing to do truly was to just let her huff it out. And she's grown out of it now.

And to all those who are saying she was huffing because she thought her brother's present was better how dare she - again, you don't know the family dynamic, you have no idea what goes on behind closed doors and none of you should de-value that child's feelings like that. That's what happened to me, in my family, I was labelled huffy, nasty, horrible, and treated very differently to my brothers (I have a thread about it) and it started from very very young - I learnt to be compliant and do what I was told, and put my feelings last. I was labelled nasty, horrible, bad tempered, huffy.

That little girl could be me, grown up, having to endure a hellish day where she is treated very differently. You don't know. No one in my family knew when I was small except my grandma, and she couldn't do enough to stop it.

I wanted mine to behave in a socially acceptable way too. And they both knew what that was at that age.

The problem with this is that it is potentially more about your needs then your DC... Who determines this magical "social acceptability" anyway.

My parents were like this, very much of the authoritarian school that can undermine children's feelings and autonomy.

My father particularly would have agreed with the statement they will be in the photo and smile because I have told them too.

He hated any hint that his authority or control was being undermined and would get quite irrational with it, really realy irate [quite scary]

He had no interest in why his children felt the way they did, he was just determined to exert control.

And he had no desire to be shown up in front of other parents [particularly his siblings and parents, my GP] and that was his all encompassing need, to look like a parent in control rather than one who had emotional empathy with his DC.

I am 38 now and this still makes me sad. I think it may be part of the reason I live in a different country to my parents. And I definitely don't trust my parents with my emotional feelings [my mother was less strict but an enabler to my father and of the "stand by your man" school]

So all you posters who want "well behaved", "socially acceptable" children be careful what you wish for.

I also got myself into emotionally inappropriate relationships as a young adult [emotionally abusive] as I didn't give any credence to my own feelings of hurt and anger as I had been so well trained to.

Took a fantastic therapist and about 4 years of therapy to sort out [I was effectively "re-parented" as my therapist put it]

Mmm, don't agree santastrapon.

I can clearly remember having a tantrum about the same age when my aunt gave me and my sister Christmas presents. I preferred my sister's doll to mine.

My parents just took us away. I imagine they must have apologised to my aunt at the time.

When we got home and I'd calmed down my mum told me I'd been rude and ungrateful and had hurt my aunt's feelings and spoiled the day.

She got me on my own and didn't shout at me but said it would be nice if I rang my aunt - also on my own - to say sorry. So I did. I'm sure she checked with my aunt and if I hadn't have done it she would have had a slightly stronger word with me.

I feel bad about upsetting my aunt to this day. I didn't say it in my apology but was a horrible dolly though

Is she one of those grandmothers who likes nice neat school uniform photos of her grandchildren around her home to show off to her friends, and likes droppign the number of grandchildren she has into every conversation, but actually hates having them around and has unreaslistic expectations about how quiet and calm and mini-adult like children should/can be. Why was the photo more important to her than her grandchildren being happy and having a nice time?

Maybe by photo time the child had been berated enough about being a normal 6 year old and wanted some space? can't really say without being there and seeing the run up to it.

"It sounds to me like she was dealing with her anger quite appropriately and the best thing would have been to wait until she'd got over it and draw as little attention to it as possible."

Yes, if you'd read the rest of my post you'd have seen that I agree with you. I just took exception to your more general point about them emotional damage you do to children when you impose your will on them.

TamIAm, you are absolutely right! Thank goodness for your voice of reason on this thread.

SantasStrapon - can't you understand that people actually cannot help how they feel? To allow a child to deal with her anger her way is exactly the right thing to do rather than to shame her for feeling angry.

It took me a year of psychotherapy as an adult to be able to recognise my emotions, and even now I am afraid to feel negative emotions and if I'm angry I feel shame attached to the anger. That's because my parents threatened me if I got angry or upset and they couldn't understand why. They took away my right to deal with my emotions my way.

"the emotional damage" not "them emotional damage"!

Oh and I just wanted to say that my DB has turned into a parent very much like our father.

Whereas he thinks that I don't know what I am talking about and am too soft.

But I feel [and get told by others] that my DS is in the main delightful with only the occasional tantrum