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AIBU?

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Original poster

AIBU re huffing child response?

201 replies

rootietootie · 27/12/2011 01:19

Long story short, on Christmas day all five children and five grandchildren were at my mums house. This is a very rare occurrence that we are all the same house at the same time so mum wanted a photo of us all. Just at that moment brothers DD1 (6) went into a major huff (I think this had been off and on all morning) due to the fact that she thought her younger brother got a better xmas present. Due to huffing she refused to speak to anyone or come to get her photo taken. I cant stress the importance of everyone being in the photo for my mum. Mum tried to persuade her to come through but was rudely ignored. My brothers response? Just leave her. No discipline. Just leave her. Photo was taken without her and mum is really really disappointed, it kind of defeated the purpose of taking the photo iyswim. Im just so shocked at my brothers attitude towards it. Someone please come along and tell me the logic and purpose to his response because I dont understand it.

OP posts:
EdithWeston · 27/12/2011 14:05

I do expect it, of course I do. I's all part of training children to behave properly in ordinary social gatherings.

I absolutely loathe having my photo taken, but learned to out up with it for the big set piece occasions - like the rare times all my grandparents' children and grandchildren were in one place. Both the occasion and the memento gave them a great deal of pleasure.

But hey, lets not expect today's children to think of others, comply with simple requests and generally be pleasant. Let's have tantrums, non-co-operation and expectations of nothing better than that.

SantasStrapon · 27/12/2011 14:08

At the age of 6, she is more than capable of controlling herself. We're not talking about a toddler ffs. She has to behave herself at school, she can manage it elsewhere.

Mine would have been in that photo, and they would have been bloody smiling too.

4madboys · 27/12/2011 14:11

what exotic said on the last page!

i do try to get my kids to have their photo taken when they refuse, particularly if its for grandparents, great grandparents etc, BUT you cannot make them smile and look happy, hell i wil try bribery witha bit of chocolate etc, but ultimately if htey are not going to co-operate then i would much rather have a picture of the other children looking happy, we have the odd ones witha sulky child in and some are kind of cute, but if htey are crying and red faced and thoroughly miserable what they hell is the point, just take a picture when they are in a better mood.

i would love ti KNOW HOW exactly you can get a child to sit and act happy and smile nicely when they really dont want to! i could explain to my elder children that the photo is important for grandma and my 12yr old and 9yr old woudl do it, my 9yr old might have a slight look of wtf on his face depending on his mood! but a 6yr old? int he midst of the xmas day madness etc? some may be compliant, but many would not be.

clam · 27/12/2011 14:12

Actually, some friends have a fantastic photo of their DCs with all their cousins, 9 or 10 of them, ranging from about 5 to 14 years old. They said it had been a mammoth logistical exercise to get it sorted, especially as one child was stropping. In the end, one of the uncles got them all to lie on the floor in a kind of circle with their heads in the middle, bodies radiating out from the centre like daisy petals. I think at some point someone dropped a feather from above, which they all had to blow away, to stop it landing on them. They were laughing like drains and loads of shots were taken by various adults throughout.
Result: great picture, laughing children, strop forgotten.
Only problem is you get a crick in the neck looking at the snap to see everyone's face the right way up!

4madboys · 27/12/2011 14:13

yeah you can tell a child to smile but if they dont want to its not going to be a nice smile, a happy one with that smile mirrored int heir eyes, its going to look crap.

i am strict in many other ways, my kids are polite and well mannered and eat well, sit nicely at the table etc etc, but as for MAKING someone doa geniune smile you cant force that. hell many well paid professional actors fail at doing it with any real lustre!

4madboys · 27/12/2011 14:15

we have a similar pick clam and so do many of our friends, i think its an old trick but a GOOD one and that is what you have to do with children, you cant force them to sit and smile but you can try and help them to enjoy the moment, pictures where people are happy are always far better than the ones where everyone is just sitting, standing together in an awkward forced pose, get them to do something fun!

exoticfruits · 27/12/2011 14:19

Mine would have been in that photo, and they would have been bloody smiling too.

This made me laugh. It would have been a challenge to me at 6 yrs! I would have smiled for SantasStrapon, but I doubt whether anyone would have liked the end result!

EdithWeston · 27/12/2011 14:20

It's not about whether they can force a smile (see Calvin and Hobbes cartoons for some brilliant examples of expressions a child might really pull!).

It's simply about participating in a normal part of a rare all-family gathering, and totally reasonable expectations of a school aged child.

exoticfruits · 27/12/2011 14:21

The only way is to ignore totally and make it such fun for the rest that she didn't want to miss out. (or bribery for those taking part)

Hulababy · 27/12/2011 14:27

I'd ignore a sulk. Pick your battles and all that. And ime ignoring the unwanted behaviour is by far the best solution. The more fuss you make, the worse it becomes.

It would have probably been over with in 10 minutes max and a nice photo taken then. I am sure everyone could have managed to wait 10 minutes.

As for someone preferring a crying child in a photo than not there at all - I very much doubt any nice person would want to have an upset child for the sake of a photo.

YonderRevoltingPeasantWhoIsHe · 27/12/2011 14:32

Sorry, I find they would have been bloody smiling really unpleasant. No offence.... that kind of attitude is the reason that now I am an adult, I didn't see or speak to my father on Christmas Day.

exoticfruits · 27/12/2011 14:36

I find they would have been bloody smiling really unpleasant.

I would have found it deeply unpleasant as a DC and would not have let the parent win-I would have been 'bloody smiling'-the result, as I said, would not have been the one wished for! I wasn't a bolshy DC, but that sort of attitude would have brought out the worst in me! Pick your battles.

perceptionreality · 27/12/2011 14:38

You cannot discipline a 6 year old (or anyone else) for being in a huff. People are entitled to have the feelings they have and to deal with them in their own way.

To say to a child 'You are going to be punished because you're not doing what I want you to do' is very wrong and invalidates the child's right to their own feelings. How would you like it if your partner punished you for being in a bad mood?

Your brother was quite right in his response to the situation.

NatureAbhorsAHoover · 27/12/2011 14:50

Surprised at the number of people suggesting that the entire extended clan reschedule the photo shoot, all to appease one sulking 6 year old?

I'm sure she'll turn out to be a lovely well-balanced adult with that sort of sense of her own importance in the world Xmas Hmm

EmmaBemma · 27/12/2011 14:53

My four year old can be a right stroppy mare. Christmas seems to bring out this tendency in her more than other times - obviously the high excitement, family tensions, everyone cooped up in the same house all day etc. When she's in a strop I would do what your brother did - just leave her, because any intervention would drag it out and make it worse for everyone. Afterwards an apology would be sought, but otherwise I'm not sure what else I would have done in your brother's shoes.

I disagree with perceptionreality though. There are plenty of times I want my children to do things they don't want to do. Put their clothes on in the morning. Eat some of their dinner. Go to bed at bedtime. Put down that vase. Etc.

EmmaBemma · 27/12/2011 14:55

Also, unless everyone was about to leave, I don't understand why the picture couldn't have been postponed for an hour or so, to give time for everyone to be in a more chipper mood.

YonderRevoltingPeasantWhoIsHe · 27/12/2011 15:00

Emma apparently everyone was leaving, that was the reason. I agree there are times when children just have to do as they're told - put down that vase is one of them - but there is a big difference IMO between don't break someone else's property and come here and pretend to be happy when you are upset because I said so.

perceptionreality · 27/12/2011 15:03

EmmaBemma - expecting them to do things they need to do like putting their clothes on is entirely different. I did not say I don't want my children to do things they need to do like get ready for school.

What you cannot expect is for a child to shift their bad mood into a good one just because you can't understand why she's feeling that way - that kind of thing is toxic parenting as far as I'm concerned. It reminds me of how I was treated by my parents who punished me if I was in a sulky mood because they thought I had 'no reason to feel that way'.

It sounds to me like she was dealing with her anger quite appropriately and the best thing would have been to wait until she'd got over it and draw as little attention to it as possible.

TamIAm · 27/12/2011 15:05

I'm sure she'll turn out to be a lovely well-balanced adult with that sort of sense of her own importance in the world

Hmmm, but having her emotional state totally undermined, ignored, and dismissed in lieu of a photo - ie giving her the message that another person's idea of a perfect photo is more important than the people in it themselves or what their feelings are - is going to create a perfectly balanced, emotionally stable adult, hey.

The fact of the matter is that all of the traits that that little girl is exhibiting are the ones that should be valued in children - the ability to express emotion, the ability to be assertive about things being done to her and to stand up for herself, the ability to take herself away when she can't contain her own emotion so as not to inflict it on others. These are all things that should be encouraged in children - they're certainly things that we want adults to be able to do for themselves and the people around them. For example - if she's in a situation in 10 short years where a spotty-faced boy wants her to have sex with him and she's not ready to, and he's pushing the point - do we want her to be too scared to speak out about her feelings or do we want her to be able to say "No! This isn't right, and I'm not going to do it!"

Because the fact of the matter is, all that you're 'training' a child to do by telling her that a photo is more important than she herself is, is to suppress her natural feelings about an issue, and submit herself to anything and everything that somebody else feels strongly about - not matter how unpleasant it is or how much she doesn't want to do it.

That's not what I want for my children.

Children aren't dogs, nor yet possessions. They're people. Little people, certainly, people who need guidance, people who deserve as much respect as any other person - and people who need more protection than big people who, quite frankly, can get over their 'disappointment' at not having the perfect photo.

perceptionreality · 27/12/2011 15:08

Exactly, TamIAm, you've said it much better than I could. As an adult I ended up in relationships with people where I couldn't voice my feelings and I almost felt they didn't matter. Therefore people walked all over me, repeatedly.

YonderRevoltingPeasantWhoIsHe · 27/12/2011 15:11

Tam exactly. I wasn't going to post anymore on this thread but just had to say you are so right - this little girl was very possibly trying to take herself away to calm down and she is being dragged back to put on a fake smile for others. Yuck.

DontFreekinEatMeImJustATurkey · 27/12/2011 15:13

At 6 years old she should be told she's having a photo taken and why. She is not a toddler, who would not understand the importance of the photo. She got her own way... such a shame... speaks badly for parenting imo.

perceptionreality · 27/12/2011 15:17

If you reduce every situation to whether the child is 'getting her own way' or not then you miss the bigger picture entirely and could inflict emotional damage.

Who here would want to have their picture taken if they were in a bad mood? Children's feelings should be respected the same as anyone else.

4madboys · 27/12/2011 15:19

what tamiam said! my ds2 gets sulky/stroppy and he often goes off to his room, i have had people say i shouldnt let him storm off to his room etc, but what actually happens is he is recognising he feels angry and wound up and he needs to calm down AWAY from people, so we just let him go off and after a while he comes back and is fine, and will apologise etc. he is learning about his moods and emotions and what ways work best for him to deal with them, i think this is a good thing!

SantasStrapon · 27/12/2011 15:27

I don't. I think people need to learn to control themselves. You can't just throw a tantrum when you don't get your own way. Part of life is also learning to accept that.