To be annoyed after visiting the Feminism section?

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Sorry, i know its Christmas but i got annoyed.

They may be bastions of respectability. A challenge often faced by feminists. Do you want to be thought of as respectable? A different thing to deserving of respect in my opinion.

I'm intrigued by 'gaslighting' though. Entire genres of dystopian fiction are based on similar principles.

I think I must read a different feminist section to everyone else.

Well, I was going to read the whole thread conscientiously before taking my poor sick DH up to my mum's, but I got as far as handdived admitting she got me and BOF mixed up and had to stop in order to kneel in a corner and chant We Are Not Worthy.

And I hope we can all agree that's the truly important thing that came out of this thread.

I did glance down with amusement to whatme saying the section is 'poorly trafficked', which kind of suggests she never looks to see what sections things in the Active Threads come from.

But anyway ... it's Christmas. Some of us are glad of some support. If it doesn't suit you, please just keep it quiet instead of calling us 'silly' or being rude. What harm does it do to you to ignore a thread quietly?

There is all this talk about how being on the Feminism section makes some posters 'annoyed' and others can't go there for fear they're end up rolling their eyes - FFS, stop being so precious. I go there for support and help and sorry, that is actually quite important to me, so would you knock off the smuggery for two seconds please?

The feminist section is less dysfunctional that it was a few months ago when I was unapologetically accused of being a troll who went there only to criticise.

I think that the prevailing attitude then was both unpleasant and counterproductive. It was also frequently shrill, and much of the posting lacked substance (and as there were several posters sycophantic to just about anything, it became unintentionally hilarious in places, and desperately over earnest). There were also some posters who kept smothering debate by attempting to claiming it as a "safe" space, which of course it never was, but I think I saw something that said MN had eventually made it clear it was open Internet, not safe space and would they shut up please and stop trying to make it something it wasn't.

But I do think I'm describing an unusually bad patch. It's not always like that. And most of it is indistinguishable from the rest of MN.

I think the poster above who said to think of it as an AIBU section has got it right. And the more who post there, with any view, the lower the possibility of there being any little groups of dominant posters ever again and wrecking it again. It's pretty normal and much less unpretentious there at the moment: so no need to swerve unless it lurches back.

I like the feminist section and find it thought provoking and have never been bullied despite being a SAHM and religious feminist. The opinions are varied and interesting.

But if you dont like it dont go in. I'd never venture into S&B because I dont understand the fascination with expensive handbags.

Oddly enough, the same thought popped into my head.
I never go into S&B, it annoys me. I see most or all of the threads as shallow and irrelevant to me, the picking over details, labels and shades and the incredible sums of money involved leave me thinking
'How many OXFAM chickens could you buy for the price of that handbag?'
So I leave them be, hide the entire section and forget about it. Why enter somewhere that you dislike? Why start threads going on about how much you dislike the section?
Why not just move on and think happy thoughts?

oh yay another one of these threads.

particularly liking that women are queuing up to slag off other women whilst ignoring some guy who just said that all the women on mn are uptight fuckers who need a good seeing to

bizarre!

happy christmas everyone

Feminism is not just a matter of women making choices. Feminism is about making choices that are for the greater good of women in general, and which are not contributing to what remains a predominantly t and patriarchal mindset in society

one of the best things to happen to me as i age is that i increasingly don't really care/am unbothered by accusations that i am unfriendly, or unwelcoming, or just plain not nice

when i was young, to be a bitch was one of the worst things you could be, (well, besides being fat or ugly) and a quick and easy way to dismiss a woman

i will always strive to not make personal attacks (e.g. i will say, 'rape is never the victim's fault' instead of 'rape is never the victim's fault...you asshole), and i will post in good faith, but my opinions are my own. If posters are posting similarly, then there is scope for discussion

as always, that is assuming we are both starting from a premise that women are human beings. if not, i don't think any fruitful discussion is possible, and i certainly won't be modifying my posts to accomodate the feelings of anyone who would argue against the humanity of half the planet

I find it an interesting section but have in the past - as others have said - been put off by the tedious repetitiveness of accusations of being a rape apologist or victim blaming whenever one dares to disagree or debate on such threads.

And the tiresome cries of 'link please' stifles discussion based on one's own point of view - unless you can support what you say with evidentiary proof you may as well not voice it.

It seems odd to me: this determination to stifle debate.

I dont think people do try too hard to make a point out of nothing MoFo. Feminism is political. Just because Woman A is generally unafected by the patriarchal culture we live in (and indeed the whole world) doesnt mean she should dismiss what Woman B is talking about. IYSWIM
?Justice will not be served until those who are unaffected are as outraged as those who are.?
― Benjamin Franklinman

MoFo - I think often though, it's the seemingly trivial things that are the last straw, right?

There was an AIBU a few days ago about some poor woman who was doing over 90% of the cooking, and a part-time job, and a full-time PhD, and she came on making an AIBU about whether or not her DH should have nicked slices off the beef joint she'd said she wanted to keep for dinner. It was such a trivial thing lots of people were wondering why she was so upset, but gradually it came out that she was just feeling rotten with the situation in general, and the last argument was the one she fixed on to post about. I do that loads myself - I'll be convinced that a small detail that's really upset me is teh crucial one and won't notice the big picture until someone shows me.

So I think that is partly why things that seem trivial, or which seem a stretch to view as feminist issues, end up being discussed. It's like when people start talking about their MIL writing to them as 'Mrs John Smith': IMO almost always it's not people who have a lovely, happy relationship with her, it's people who know their MIL is judging them for not being a more traditional type, or whatever. So it's a sign of a bigger issue.

And that makes sense to me because I do believe there's an underlying structure in society which is not good to women at all.

i tend to ask for links when people make assertions about facts

e.g. 'most people who enjoy tennis are also kleptomaniacs' i might wish for some sort of link

whereas 'i find tennis oring and pointless' is someone's opinion which i may disagree with, but not something i feel needs to be evidenced

there are probably times when the distinction is far more nuanced than my facetious example would show, but i think it is valid to ask for evidence where people are expressing opinions as though they are fact, particularly where they are damaging - e.g. people who state that there are actual objective things that you can do to prevent being raped; people who claim that the convicton rate for rape vs total number of reported rapes is low because it is difficult to prove/women had regretful sex - these things need to be challenged

Do you think people may be annoyed because they were told they were brainwashed into doing everything at Christmas, while men do nothing and get all the benefit?

And that it is a deliberate ploy of the Patriarchy to do this.