To be annoyed after visiting the Feminism section?

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Sorry, i know its Christmas but i got annoyed.

Ok, women are blameless victims and men are the equivalent of SBTs and the sooner we stop trying to work towards educating people the better.
If anyone thinks that women are capable of helping themselves and should be doing so, that person is a smug, solipsistic idealist.
Got it.

hyperbole much?

www.dickgaughan.co.uk/songs/texts/account.html

I think I got in trouble for my post on the patriachymas thread :(

I think I'm in trouble on both threads.
Oh well, time to retire and let the younger generation take over I think.
I'll see you in gardening and fiction, or home baking. Or the weather. They seem like safe topics.

Sorry,Norris it was a poor attempt by me at sarcasm ( or irony?) - I never could get the hang of it.

I think all gardeners are maniacs, personally

If anyone thinks that women are capable of helping themselves and should be doing so, that person is a smug, solipsistic idealist.

Well, you are threatening the default position of the MN Feminist which is of the Eternal Blameless Victim.

I had to look up the word flagellate.It wasn't as rude as I thought.

Actually the feminist position, not just the Mumsnet feminist position, is that there are structural inequalities between men and women that need to be addressed.

Part of the problem here seems to be that people can only ever look at this from an individualised point of view, rather than looking at trends across the whole of society.

Yesterday most of the work for the holiday was done by women. Christmas is a patriarchal religious festival. Both of those things are true, but somehow it annoyed someone so much that they had to start a thread about it, that has now reached 300 odd posts.

It's fine to have a different opinion, but objecting or attacking us for voicing ours, is not on.

There are structural inequalities between men and women.That's why there's no such word as Binwoman.

Exoticfruits, just to be clear, are you saying that if a woman finds herself doing the majority of the shitwork, that's her problem for being gullible and it has nothing to do with wider cultural expectations of men and women?

whatmeworry, I don't see women as blameless victims. What I see is that people are part of a pattern from a very early age, one which is very hard to break.

When young girls are endlessly given toy kitchens, dolls, even ironing boards, of course they are being socialised into viewing these things as part of their future role. From a personal point of view, when I was a child, every Saturday I was taken to the supermarket to do the shopping, then helped prepare it, while my brother stayed at home watching TV. So of course, these patterns are then very hard to break and at Christmas, with so much going on, they are magnified.

So many things irritate me about threads that have a pop at feminism and this site's feminism board.

One of them is the complete inability to see that patriarchy disadvantages men as well as women.

The second is the sheer idiocy of posters who don't seem to question why they've opted for 'traditional roles' in their relationships and beyond a bit of "Men eh? They just can't see dirt can they?" complaining every now and then, like to tell other women that they are making a fuss over nothing, if they give good reasons for why their personal relationships are more equitable and why they are fighting for women who have fewer choices and are disadvantaged by the sexist structures that contain and repress them.

Of course there are also the posters who pretend to be women, but are transparently male sexists and are fooling nobody.

I'm eternally grateful that feminism exists and that posters take the trouble to produce cogent, brilliantly written arguments about society and the structures that we all need to question.

This thread drove me to the feminism board

I think that this from Whatmeworry about the fem posters

"many have finessed being rude to just that point where the post isn't reportable."

sums up this

"did somebody once say a mean thing to you in the Fem section, Nicey ?

poor you

I think you should set up a website about that

oh you aready did..."

quite nicely

Exoticfruits, just to be clear, are you saying that if a woman finds herself doing the majority of the shitwork, that's her problem for being gullible and it has nothing to do with wider cultural expectations of men and women?

Why do you have to buy into cultural expectations?
I have DSs, they had a toy kitchen and ironing board-not bought to make any points-they enjoyed playing with them.
I just get annoyed when people start threads about division of labour at Christmas, thinking everyone follows them. DSs girlfriend sent a picture of her Christmas dinner-her Uncle cooked it-and did the table decorations. Lots of men do.
Women take these things upon them. DS had a male flat mate-he drove him up the wall because he was so messy. This flatmate has now moved in with his girlfriend, I doubt if she will insist he does his fair share or simply move out if he argues-she will do it all and turn up here in 5 yrs time moaning.
Lots of men don't get near their baby, their DW has probably never had any experience of babies and yet within hours she will become the expert and 'senior' parent, telling him what to do! A lot of women like control-and they like control in the home which means they get left with the work. DH is in the kitchen now-getting a meal. I don't expect that he is doing what I would do but does it matter?

thanks Boney, I am quite proud of that one

Yup, and proud of it.

I just think it's extraordinary that feminism on MN is about bullying other women.

I think it's extraordinary that men feel so threatened by the Feminist section, they take every opportunity to trash it

Judging by this thread it's the opposite. There wasn't any bullying on the thread that pissed off the OP. There's been plenty of bullying of feminists on this thread.