To be annoyed after visiting the Feminism section?

[Laquitar]

Sorry, i know its Christmas but i got annoyed.

Dust, a fundamental principle of feminism in the 70s was that women's voices should be heard.

Not shouted down.

Katie,
i think your post is what i'm going to take with me from this thread and i will try to remember it when i read something. Thank you.

I'm definitely into 'try before you buy'. You need your head. See them past the first impression phase, see them with too much to drink, see their house (never marry straight from their mother) see their friends and above all see their family. Best to live with them first-and get out early, when easy, if necessary.

exoticfruits I have been nodding and agreeing with your posts all through this thread...I just thought I'd pop on and say that

As for the feminist section, I tend to keep away from it due to the same small handful of posters who seem to pile in and almost 'bully' women they don't agree with, or at the very least they patronise the crap out of them.

You challenge them by living on your own terms, by refusing to compromise or back down to be nice.

Exactly-every time.

'Dust, a fundamental principle of feminism in the 70s was that women's voices should be heard.

Not shouted down.'

They were shouted down and mocked usually by men, and ignored or mocked by women who felt that all a feminist needed was to fall in love with Mr Right.
So some gave up and some kept going and some modified and changed the message to fit their circumstances. But progress has been made since then, and it is a pity when that forward movement is lost within infighting and arguments along the lines of the Judean People's Front.

Dust, you'd think that would be the case...

I'm still waiting for evidence to suggest otherwise.

Yes, but on the Feminism board, women are shouted down by other women.

Other women who claim to be feminists. That's the difference.

Maybe it helped being brought up as the only girl in the family, I started early-there was no way that I would have done anything differently to my brothers-unless I wanted to do it.
This is the first day of your life-don't be defeatist and give up-challenge. Thanks WorraLiberty-not many people say that.

Frothy, do you truly believe that no progress has been made in WR since the 70s?
You obviously didn't live through them as a teenage girl.

There has always been a 'More Feminist Than Thou' morality police, for decades. It's just a hardline way of thinking, no one is pure enough.

I didn't say that at all...

My reply was to your reply to me (xposted; sorry)

And nope, didn't live through the 70's at all... Was an 80's baby...

Sorry-should have said 'first day of the rest of your life'. If you are not happy don't just let it slide.

You're welcome Lacquitar

I read my dd "The Zoo" and all the animals are male. I'm watching Monsters Inc with my DC and all the characters are male bar a receptionist Love Interest character and a child that needs protecting. I walk into a shop and it's not only full of pink shit, but its pink ironing boards, cookers, princesses, vacuums etc. Over and over again women reduced to bit parts and domesticity, and no one bats an eyelid and can't see the problem, and that's one of the biggest problems feminism has. A few arsey posters are just a drop in the ocean by comparison and cries of Misandry akin to a spoiled child griping at just the thought that they may not have everything their own way.

How do you know, before you have children, that your partner is definitely going to do a fair share with the children? If your partner doesn't do his fair share with the children, say he refuses to pick the kids up from school ever, how do you challenge that by 'refusing to back down'? Do you just leave a four year old at school and not pick them up for half the time?

I really think that all the women who think that women could sort out their relationship problems if they were just stronger could actually massively help other women sort out their problems if they put together a thread of practical advice explaining to women how they can get men to do a fair share of the work, or give a fair share of the love. Or write a book. You would make a fortune.

But having read hundreds of MN threads where women face all manner of problems in relationships, there seems to be a lack of any explanation of what to do, other than give the ultimatum of leaving the relationship.

Just to say that I agree mostly with FellatioNelson' s POV

I do find the section enlightening, challenging and educational sometimes. There have been a few topics that have made me look at something in a different light. But equally there have been a few comments/angles that have made me think "Woah! That's a bit skewed/harsh"

So, in the main, I lurk but don't post.

It's not always that easy to just sort out the situation on your own terms, exotic. If you could just stand up for yourself and suddenly everything changes, life would be a piece of cake. We are not living in a movie.

Take my parents. My mum totally martyrs herself over Christmas. She does EVERYTHING because she wants it to be nice and perfect. My dad doesn't have a clue, he wouldn't even think to buy us presents or to go and get a tree. My mum loses it with him sometimes, but nothing changes. So what do you suggest she does? Just not have Christmas?

In some families/cultures, misogyny is deeply ingrained. As deeply ingrained as any other cultural norm. What if you suddenly decided that you wanted to be a nudist and that you were going to walk around naked all day, no matter who came to the house? Would you just suddenly say "this is what I want, this is what I'm doing" and expect everyone to accept it? I think you'd find it quite hard. And though it is not so in your house, regarding equal workloads (and that's great), for some families, it would be equally as impossible to suddenly say "fuck me running around after you" as it would to walk about in the nude.

you agree with nice laq? nice who said that all the women on mn were uptight fuckers who needed a good seeing to?

right.

and fwr section is not about shouting down other women - there seem to be a lot of threads about shouting down feminists though don't there? they've been called shrill, stupid and god only knows what else on this thread but that's not bullying? or rude?

the only playground analogy in it is that this is like the kid who goes round beating the shit out of everyone on a daily basis finally got stood up to by someone who told him he was being horrible and ran to mummy saying 'i'm being picked on'.

Are we talking about DV specifically?
Most of the complaining threads at the moment are about a man not pulling his weight in the wifework stakes, not DV.
So if you live with a man before marriage, or before children, do you not think that his attitudes towards you, housework and what equality looks like on a daily basis might become more clear to you? So that you can assess your relationship before you are trapped, pregnant, unemployed and powerless? There will always be those that turn into monsters without warning, but look how many on here can spot the signs of an exploiting and sexist man without ever actually meeting him.

One of the best ways that I can help those women is by teaching their daughters that their lives don't have to follow the same pattern, so that's what I try and do. And to teach the boys that I come into contact with that women are their equals and entitled to the same respect and opportunities that they will have, so that they might avoid becoming sexist, manipulative woman-beating caricatures.

should they all get an, "aren't i clever" badge?

should we hand out "i'm stupid" badges to those who don't spot it dust?

i'm not getting your point.

incidentally a lot of the women who are great at spotting abusers on these boards have learned the hard way.