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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

a lot of churches are unfriendly and christianity can be hypocritical

138 replies

boglach · 20/12/2011 20:48

My ds carol service today. i took my 2 year old dd. she didn't sit perfectly still no, but neither was she loud or badly behaved. i was getting dirty looks.

now excuse me but i was under the impression that jesus was supposed to have loved children and that churches should welcome families?

also when i was younger i tried to find god. i went to a couple of churches which were most exclusive and unfriendly so i rapidly lost faith.

sometimes christianity feels like another clique. if your face fits then fine.

What a pile of tosh

OP posts:
GypsyMoth · 20/12/2011 20:49

Maybe the 'dirty looks' were in your imagination!

5318hoho8 · 20/12/2011 20:50

sometimes when you are under pressure you can perceive things like a sympathetic glance as a dirty look

amerryscot · 20/12/2011 20:50

Maybe the dirty looks were from other tourists?

Pandemoniaa · 20/12/2011 20:51

You think Christians can be cliquey? Count yourself lucky to have avoided pagan politics!

Rhubarbgarden · 20/12/2011 20:51

Yanbu. I have never felt so excluded as the time I tried to join a church.

I am now a born again atheist.

boglach · 20/12/2011 20:52

Nah i've been around long enough to know a dirty look.

OP posts:
amichrissima · 20/12/2011 20:53

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Cherriesarelovely · 20/12/2011 20:53

YANBU, I TOTALLY agree with you OP.

Cherriesarelovely · 20/12/2011 20:54

No, admittedly they don't have the monopoly on it but since Churches are supposed to symbolise love and acceptance it is always particularly depressing when people are made to feel judged or unwelcome in them.

boglach · 20/12/2011 20:55

Absolutely rhubarb. I never tar everyone with the same brush, i am sure there are lovely, inclusive christians. but i have never been in a church that was primarily warm and friendly to 'outsiders'

OP posts:
LaurieFairyCake · 20/12/2011 20:56

Newsflash: some churches have people in them. Some people are arseholes.

Going in a building does not stop people being arseholes Wink

Some buildings with people in are lovely (like the church I go to occasionally).

Churches are full of normal people, lots of normals are cocks Xmas Grin

squeakytoy · 20/12/2011 20:56

If a child makes a noise, people look. Not necessarily a dirty look... they just look.

I think some parents have an inbuilt noise-reduction and dont realise that their kids are a lot noiser than they think. Grin

rogersmellyonthetelly · 20/12/2011 20:59

Come to ours, we have a creche and the vic doesnt mind of he has to shout over the kids in his sermon.

GrimmaTheNome · 20/12/2011 21:00

YANBU - parents get dirty looks in many public places but really shouldn't at a carol service.

OTOH there are churches where you'd have got a friendly 'been there' grin.

I'm an ex-christian and have seen the good, the bad, the beautiful and the ugly in churches. Yes, its a pile of tosh but there are some lovely people and churches too - going back to the church I 'grew up' in for my mum's funeral was like going home, even though I don't believe a word of it any more.

WiseMenKeepGivingGifts · 20/12/2011 21:01

Different congregations have different kinds of people in them and unfortunately there will always be some tactless or unkind individuals. Please don't think all churches are made up solely of people like this because it simply isn't true.

I do know, however, that it can feel this way as we had to 'shop around' before we found one that suited us. Our children have SN and this has caused lots of problems. There is a lot of hypocrisy in churches, but not all churches have congregations which will tolerate hypocrisy in the ranks.
YANBU, but a lot of churches is by no means all of them.

boglach · 20/12/2011 21:02

Yes but there is something weird psychologically acting like an arsehole, then behaving with a superior attitude because of your Faith

OP posts:
LRDtheFeministDragon · 20/12/2011 21:03

I think if you 'lost faith' because people were unfriendly, maybe it wasn't really faith in the first place?

If you brought a child into my church, I would look around if her moving caught my eye, but I would be smiling - I've rarely been in a church where people have been nasty about children, it's a real shame. Sad

aldiwhore · 20/12/2011 21:04

At a Carol Service you really can't tell who's a Christian, I went to one today and I'm not, and neither was my Jewish friend.

Maybe it was us giving you dirty looks rather than the Christians?

If you were sat solid in your pew and your 2 yr old was shuffling about, squeaking and being a perfectly normal two year old maybe the dirty looks weren't at your child but you for not moving to the back of the Church where usually a small child can squeak more and be perfectly normal or going for a walk.

Maybe I looked at you with no dirty intent just a glance of 'why the eff aren't you meeting this big vast space half way'? Your DS I assume being small, has a small voice, and without decent sound equipment even the smallest, squeak or continual shuffling can drown out any other sound, usually the small voice at the front. I don't honestly think anyone minds the odd shuffle, squeak, loud voice (my 4yr old son exclaiming "That's My BROTHER!" for example) but if its continual, and irritating, inevitably someone's going to think "FFS do something!"

I spent MY DS's carol service at the back of the church, trying quietly to stop my youngest from rings the damn church bells, doing a jigsaw with him etc., trying to minimise any disturbance he may cause, doing something that involved losing my 'top pew view' of my eldest's performance. I feel your pain, YANBU, for feeling a little judged or 'noted', it happens and its understandable.

YABVU for realising that any looks, dirty or not, meant your child was irritating and disrupting the service. Although your child has done nothing wrong, maybe you should have seen this as simply as a cue for you do try something different to tackle it?

MrsPennySworth · 20/12/2011 21:04

Yanbu I've had a few bad experiences with unwelcomeness (if that's a word!?) and cliqueness in churches over the years and very recently too and I've just started reading The God Delusion by Richard Dawkins. I have felt a bit let down by it all so could quite well be turning atheist like Rhubardgarden although I haven't quite admitted this to myself yet! Sad

GrimmaTheNome · 20/12/2011 21:07

Yes but there is something weird psychologically acting like an arsehole, then behaving with a superior attitude because of your Faith

Its odd how some churchgoers don't notice when they're being Pharisees.

ColdTruth · 20/12/2011 21:07

To be fair it is people who are hypocritical rather than Christianity,

troisgarcons · 20/12/2011 21:08

Depends on the Church.

You cant just say you went to "a" church for a carol service and make a thread up saying "a lot" of churches are unfriendly.

Chrisitainity has many guises - I take it you weren't in something clap-happy like Seventh Day Aventist? Or United Reformed? Or indeed, as we have acquired locally The Ministry Of Miracles and Fireworks Hmm

TBH if your DS was in a carol service so were the rest of the school choir/brownies/girl guides blah blah so you werent the only one there with a toddler.

I went to DSs carol service last week and there was an uncontrollable blank screaming 3yo who spoiled the whole thing with tantrums and hissy fits and screaming. But there we go. You take the rough with the smooth.

BTW - when i was younger i tried to find god. i went to a couple of churches which were most exclusive and unfriendly so i rapidly lost faith. Faith comes from within.

MrsSeanBean · 20/12/2011 21:09

OP you went to the wrong church. Don't be disheartened, there are some lovely welcoming churches out there. They've been a lifeline to me at some very dark times. Sorry you had such a bad experience.
(Jesus did love children and anyone who doesn't make them welcome is not being Christian at all IMO.)

amichrissima · 20/12/2011 21:12

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.