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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

a lot of churches are unfriendly and christianity can be hypocritical

138 replies

boglach · 20/12/2011 20:48

My ds carol service today. i took my 2 year old dd. she didn't sit perfectly still no, but neither was she loud or badly behaved. i was getting dirty looks.

now excuse me but i was under the impression that jesus was supposed to have loved children and that churches should welcome families?

also when i was younger i tried to find god. i went to a couple of churches which were most exclusive and unfriendly so i rapidly lost faith.

sometimes christianity feels like another clique. if your face fits then fine.

What a pile of tosh

OP posts:
amerryscot · 20/12/2011 22:46

Does she know where they are on their Christian journey, Cherries?

They might go to church for all sorts of reasons and may not (yet) be full of the Fruit of the Spirit.

Teaandchristmascakeplease · 20/12/2011 22:46

I have been in some very un-child friendly churches in my time, where I've felt judged and felt like I am getting "looks" it's a horrible feeling. It's especially hard, when we've tried so hard to keep our children quiet/ well behaved (within reason). In fact I found it exhausting trying to keep the children in check and didn't enjoy the services at all. I was at this particular village church for a year with my now ExH for his job.

I am now in a noisy family friendly church and love it. But I had to shop around as someone else said Xmas Grin

Cherriesarelovely · 20/12/2011 22:47

She is saying that she has been to several churches and has not felt accepted or welcome there. That makes me feel sad for her and I am not even a Christian.

Sirzy · 20/12/2011 22:47

Even if it is regular church goers why wouldn't some dislike children shouting out?

I also always take people's reported "dirty looks" with a pinch of salt as it is so easy to misinterpret someone's look, especially if your expecting/wanting people to react badly.

Original poster
boglach · 20/12/2011 22:49

I can mouth off on an anonymous forum if i wish

i never said all christians. my thread title uses the phrases 'a lot of' and 'can be'

'pile of tosh' was supposed to refer to the notion that a church can seem unfriendly, a place that i thought should be welcoming. especially to a young woman actively seeking to find faith as i was back then

it was not meant to refer to faith per se and i aologise if i caused offence

OP posts:
Cherriesarelovely · 20/12/2011 22:51

sirzy I know what you mean, we never really know what people are thinking and it is indeed easy to misinterpret other's looks. However it is sad that she has felt this way at several churches.

skybluepearl · 20/12/2011 22:51

Well as a child i lost half my life to bible groups, church events and meetings. It was my parents choice, not mine. My family are still ultra heavily involved these days still.

Yes some people are nice in church but as a child in the 70's 80's i found quite a few judgemental, sexist, homophobic and racisit. Their views were extreem and not really about acceptance or love or forgiveness.

Yes I do believe but no, I don't attend church.

LRDtheFeministDragon · 20/12/2011 22:51

Look, don't let it get to you, if you can. You feel they were unfriendly. It may well be they were - or some of them may deserve the benefit of the doubt. Just move on with things ... either go elsewhere, or shrug it off and accept that you have other sources of support. If you do have an inclination towards faith, it'll make itself felt in other ways I'm sure. It doesn't just disappear the first time someone makes you feel unwelcome - that's them as a person, not Christianity.

Cherriesarelovely · 20/12/2011 22:52

I really hope you find a friendly church OP and that you and everyone on the thread has a very joyful Christmas. Off to bed.

smartyparts · 20/12/2011 22:54

If your child is being disruptive in a service, please take them out.

Just a little bit of noise is OK.

Original poster
boglach · 20/12/2011 22:55

Well i walked down the side aisle looking for where i might sit. i was just stared at so i perched on the end of an aisle. it was only later in the service that i realised some parents with toddlers were stood at the back so i did join them when dd was getting restless. but couldn't someone have smiled? shown me where to go?

OP posts:
ShengdanRoad · 20/12/2011 22:56

Every church I've ever set foot in (and there have been a lot: I used to be a choral singer) has been unwelcoming, and filled with jumped-up, self-important, pompous "pillars of the community" with more prejudices than a room full of fascists.

LRDtheFeministDragon · 20/12/2011 22:59

Maybe they didn't think you'd appreciate being told where to go?

Honestly ... you could dissect what went wrong for hours but it doesn't sound like a massive issue. I know it feels rotten when you get that vibe that's not welcoming, but it doesn't sound as if they did anything deliberate.

FWIW, we have sidesmen and women in our church who welcome people and show them where to sit, and we've had people before be offended because they thought they were being told where to sit and they'd wanted to wander around the church for a bit first. You can't predict how everyone will respond.

AChickenCalledKorma · 20/12/2011 23:00

Shock at all the people leaping to the defence of the unfriendly church. It's hardly headline news that some churchgoers are not very understanding of small children. But they are - as the OP quite rightly points out - not following Jesus' example. Jesus was (a) accepting of children to a degree that would have been shocking in the culture of the time and (b) extremely down on hypocrisy.

Sadly, there are an awful lot of people who equate Christian faith with respectable, old-fashioned, middle class, "children must be seen and not heard" type behaviour Sad. I've seen it in several churches and have not gone back.

OP - I wish you'd been at our church carol service on Sunday morning. There were several families visiting with small children. They wandered around. They toddled up to the front and peered in the manger. They shouted sang the carols that they knew lustily and completely out of tune (that was my daughter Blush) and they chucked straw all over the carpet when they played with the baby Jesus after the service had finished.

I did not detect a single dirty look, raised eyebrow or catsbumface. Quite the contrary - the atmosphere was happy and relaxed.

Concordia · 20/12/2011 23:02

yanbu, churches really vary. i was looking for a church when DS was 2 and i was pregnant with DD. i got very differnet reactions in different places. and DS was behaved or i took him out btw.
it is a shame that all churches do not welcome people with small children but i guess the people wihtin them are human and sadly some churches are social clubs for older people only.
FWIW my church now is fantastic. Do you live in West yorks? - come along!

Concordia · 20/12/2011 23:03

x posts with korma. we are tying to say the same thing.

Angelswings · 20/12/2011 23:03

A lot of churches are friendly and christinaity is often not hypocritical

Local school Carol service was in a church that had boxes of toys for the toddlers and carpet for them to play on. Sofas for the parents or grandparents to sit on while watching them

Who do you expect to direct you to tour seat on a weekday service? The Pastor/vicar may well have been at the front and all the regular church goers at work of with their own families. it should have been someone from the school

Church goers are human and make mistakes, they just know they are not perfect!

naturalbaby · 20/12/2011 23:03

I've tried a few churches and none of them have been unwelcoming. All of them have been delighted (genuinely) to see us and our 3 very young kids. Maybe we were just lucky that we chose to try very family orientated churches.

I got in bit of a state that my baby was being too noisy all through last Sunday's service, I mentioned it to a few people at the end over coffee and they said they honestly didn't notice (we were at the back and they had kids chatting away to distract them!).

so in my experience YABU, a lot of churches are friendly.

Concordia · 20/12/2011 23:04

There are some lovely friendly non judgemental informal churches around. But sadly they are sometimes a bit hard to find Sad

Original poster
boglach · 20/12/2011 23:06

Achickencalledkorma thank you so much. your post has bought a tear to my eye. i find christmas carols so beautiful and i get quite emotional at carol services. as i said i had a pretty awful childhood and to see little ones accepted is so important to me.

OP posts:
Angelswings · 20/12/2011 23:07

If you want to find a friendly non judgemental church try looking for a New Wine Church. They may be any denomination but are unlikely to be stuffy

Just type in 'New Wine find a church near you' into google

Original poster
boglach · 20/12/2011 23:11

And i am not expecting tolerance of loud disruptive children during normal service or private worship. but normal toddler behaviour at a school carol service should be acceptable

what about children/people with learning difficulties? should they be excluded if their disability causes them to shout out, flap, moan etc

OP posts:
Crabapple99 · 20/12/2011 23:15

And please don't forget that "christians" are a massively diverse group of people with the whole range of human experience, including infertility, and "dirty looks" at a happy chatty child with his mother could easily be sadness and envy. ( certainly would have been if you had been sitting next to me 15 years ago)

MyChildDoesntNeedSleepAtXmas · 20/12/2011 23:16

Of course not.

But I'm just wondering if a child like that should be expected to sit through a whole church service. Doesn't seem fair on the kid to me. It's a tricky one.

Original poster
boglach · 20/12/2011 23:19

You are right crabapple. to homogenise any group is wrong

OP posts: