To ask if you make assumptions by name?

[manicinsomniac]

Okay, so in theory, we are all decent, reasonable people who would never assume that the name a family gives a child has any bearing on them as people.

But, in practice, - do we make those assumptions?

A lot of threads in the baby names topic talk about 'chavvy' names, names for people with low IQs, the idea that you can predict a child's future success based on their name etc. It all sounds very nasty and judgmental but it got me thinking as to whether we can avoid doing it and what it could mean for our children if we do.

I have only been a teacher for 5 years and have only taught in two schools - but they were very very different schools and yes, they did have very different 'popular' names. Both schools have lots of Amys, Lucys, Daniels and Sams but at the first school I taught at I had Dillon, Declan, Damon, Chelsea, Kelsey, Kasey and Jamie-Leigh. In the school I now teach at I have Annabelle, Beatrice, Georgina, Harriet, Sebastian, Frederick, Rupert and Henry.

Do you think we have names that are firmly seen as 'chavvy' or 'posh' as well as the huge mass of names that are obviously in the middle? And, if we do, do we run the risk of a child being perceived as 'a poncy twat' if we call him Rupert or 'a scuzzy chav' if we call them Jamie-Leigh. (By the way, those hideous classist terms are in inverted commas for a reason, I would never actually use them!!)

When you named your child did you consider what other people might think of the name or just go for what you liked?
Do you make assumptions about people based on their name choices?

I think that most people do and I suspect that I do myself if I'm very honest. And I think it's a bad and potentially quite damanging tendency. But I'm fully prepared to be told IABU.

I think this thread will offend people, especially those with kids' names on your 'chavvy' list above!

YANBU to ask pretty much anything you like... so YANBU to ask if people make assumptions by name.

whats in a name

I believe there's a school of thought called nominal predetermination that confirms it.

Hopefully most people are mature and intelligent enough let a person's being influence their thought process rather than something that the individual didn't have control over.

I do have a mental list of names I associate with being from less affluent backgrounds (not that that is always a bad thing.)

As a teacher, I've taught lovely Chelseas/Kaseys and horrible Harriets and stinking Sebastians ;) It isn't a pleasant/unpleasant thing: it is a class thing. Horrible Harriets are more likely to complain that you didn't mark her homework AS SOON as you got it; Kelseys are more likely to tell you to 'f' off! (Had two of those last year: both foul.)

It's difficult as like I say I don't assume people are good or bad but I do generally expect those with names from the former category to be from a lower socio-economic background, and are more likely to be on the FSM/SEN register.

I think if you give your child a chavvy name then you have to accept the consequences! We're all human and even those of us who try, as hard as possible, not to make assumptions based on hideous classism will occasionally fall from grace when faced with some of the more bizarre examples.

i think if you make judgement on peoples names alone it dosen,t say alot about you as a person.

Teapots - definitely agree that names don't affect how lovely or otherwise a child might be. But it does worry me that names seem to affect how we think of the child's background and potential.

I guess there's not much we can do about it as name popularity does seem to vary according to socio-economic group.

Proudnscary - I was going to say that I didn't give the lists titles of 'chavvy' and 'posh' and therefore an assumption had definitey been made - but then I realised that I used two names from the initial, non labelled, lists to be more specific about and ruined the 'experiment' - foolish!

There's a whole chapter in Freakonomics about names and how they can affect the outcome of a child's life. I think in the book they were referring to names that were predominantly associated with African Americans, but it's very sad that if those names were on a cv, an employer was much less likely to call that person for an interview, regardless of suitability for the job :(

I didn't think so much about the class connotations of my children's names, partly because we wanted names that would reflect our cultural heritage (we're both from Italian back ground) but ds's name has been slightly hijacked by the posh brigade (Luca) which annoys me a bit as we're not posh in the slightest. We do have an Italian surname too so at least it goes :o

Judging is one thing, making an assumption is slightly different. I confess to assuming. It's not something I'm particularly proud of but I'm human and it's human nature.

I judge.

My daughter has a name off your chavvy list. :(

I tend to agree with lisaro about this.

sorry kladakka, I didn't mean to hurt anybody. But that's kind of my point - that shouldn't warrant a sad face. That should just be her name with no connotations attatched to that name.

But it seems like that isn't the case.

I don't know if someone whose child's name is on the other list would feel upset too?

fwiw I really like 3 of the names from one list and 4 of the names from the other.

I don't think it's about the sound of a name at all. I don't know what it is. But, for some reasons, people infer things about certain names beyond the fact that it is just an arrangement of letters

The chapter in Freakonomics about names said that they concluded that (aside from truly stupid names like Shit'head) names probably did not affect a child's life nearly as much as the socio-economic status of their parents did. You're not likely to improve your child's lot just by giving them a posh name, and giving them a name isn't likely to make a difference either.

Sorry I do and with DD2s class it's about right.

I think there are names where I would make assumptions about the person who had them. I'd like to say that wasn't the case but I think if the name was all I had to go on then I might not assume the best about someone.

I make assumptions about people who use the word chav

I think humans are tribal or pack animals. Names are a way of identifying who comes from the same tribe as us. People of the same 'tribe' are likely to share the same values, look after each other rather than be a threat and we'll find it easy to get along with them.

Tribes can be geographic, ethnic, socio-economic. This is why there is snobbery, inverse snobbery, racism and sexism. It's absolutely instinctive and helps us protect ourselves and our children.

Some people like to think that they're above such stereotyping but they are usually the most judgey of the lot!

I had DD when I was living abroad. When we returned to the UK, I found that the name I'd given her thinking it was especially 'connotation free' (class-less, no celebs with the same name, etc, etc), was actually a tiny bit of a 'chavvy' name.

Okay, confession time: to my shame I now wish I hadn't given her the name. But I'd never tell DD that.

for using 'chavvy' too.

So are the assumptions about the child with the name or about the parent who gave the name?

Either way can we put it to the test? As I said, my child has a name off that list. What does that tell you about us? (Don't worry, I won't be offended, I'm pretty certain that any assumptions are likely to be so far removed from our reality that'll I'll find them funny)

I have to say that although it shouldn't matter, it does. Just like we shouldn't judge people on the way they look but we do.

I'm pregnant and thinking of names for my bump and I have to try them out in different contexts for example 'the new prime minister is ......' 'the Nobel prize goes to..' etc etc....maybe that is a bit mad I don't know?

When I taught I did make assumptions based on names,and they were usually justified but there were always exceptions-the most outstanding was a very clever,well behaved boy named Wayne Jason xxxxxBoth those names were towards the top of my red light list for boys.

char not mad at all. They say the name should work for the playground, the boardroom and the bedroom. ...Mine passed the test... just not the country context.