To ask if you make assumptions by name?

[manicinsomniac]

Okay, so in theory, we are all decent, reasonable people who would never assume that the name a family gives a child has any bearing on them as people.

But, in practice, - do we make those assumptions?

A lot of threads in the baby names topic talk about 'chavvy' names, names for people with low IQs, the idea that you can predict a child's future success based on their name etc. It all sounds very nasty and judgmental but it got me thinking as to whether we can avoid doing it and what it could mean for our children if we do.

I have only been a teacher for 5 years and have only taught in two schools - but they were very very different schools and yes, they did have very different 'popular' names. Both schools have lots of Amys, Lucys, Daniels and Sams but at the first school I taught at I had Dillon, Declan, Damon, Chelsea, Kelsey, Kasey and Jamie-Leigh. In the school I now teach at I have Annabelle, Beatrice, Georgina, Harriet, Sebastian, Frederick, Rupert and Henry.

Do you think we have names that are firmly seen as 'chavvy' or 'posh' as well as the huge mass of names that are obviously in the middle? And, if we do, do we run the risk of a child being perceived as 'a poncy twat' if we call him Rupert or 'a scuzzy chav' if we call them Jamie-Leigh. (By the way, those hideous classist terms are in inverted commas for a reason, I would never actually use them!!)

When you named your child did you consider what other people might think of the name or just go for what you liked?
Do you make assumptions about people based on their name choices?

I think that most people do and I suspect that I do myself if I'm very honest. And I think it's a bad and potentially quite damanging tendency. But I'm fully prepared to be told IABU.

usualsuspect - but do you equally hate the term 'posh'? I'm not keen on any classist terms but find it interesting that some people only seem to find one end offensive.

I used to work in CP. There was definitely a theme... So yes, I do judge a little!

I do also make assumptions, sometimes I'm right. I can also tell you from experience that some names indicate a mummy's little darling (Kitty, Tilly, Immy have all fallen into that one); some names can fall into either camp (Olivia, James, Joseph) and some indicate trouble (Kyle, Jake, Callum).

DS has a name that suits him completely. He has really grown into it!

I wouldn't believe someone who said they never made an assumption. Being judgy and treating a child/person differently is wrong though. Give them chance to prove you wrong and then feel smug when they don't though by all means!

DD has a name that is a little bit chavvy is some people's opinion. But I don't care because I like it!

I have a bit of a judgement with misspelt names - or rather corrupted spellings.

Sharlot ISO Charlotte and the like

And the erroneous 'y' - Jayson, Danayel - I just wonder why.

People don't generally look down at posh people

It is usually fine to be bitchy about posh people on MN, and seen as very judgemental and classist to be nasty about the other end of the social spectrum.

Of course people judge on a persons name, especially employers. Even if they don't actively judge/make assumptions about a name, there will be subconcious connotations that will affect the way they think about that person. It's just human nature.

trois Ooh I do too. I can remember taking the register in a school I was doing supply in once and, as I struggled to pronounce one child's name who turned out to have an elaborated spelt very ordinary name, the whole class called out in chorus "You said it wrong Miss". The temptation to say "No I didn't, his parents spelt it wrong" was strong!!

Maybe I'm weird but if an employer was the sort who passed judgement on my name I wouldn't want to work for them anyway. I'd want an employer who passed judgement on my qualifications and experience.

Exactly Kladdkaka ,and any teacher that makes assumptions based on a childs name is not a very good teacher imo

My own name is considered to be a bit chavvy these days, although it was anything but chavvy when I was given it 43 years ago (it's a bit too unusual to post here). DD is a Harriet, after my great-gran (and anything BUT a Horrible Harriet ), and DS is a James, again a family name.

Kladdkakka - I don't really know what assumptions it would raise. Actually - none of those names taken as separate names would make me think much at all, I guess I picked them for the alliterative, cumulative effect which was a little unfair and biased. But as I started the thread I feel like I have to answer. It makes me uncomfortable to do so though and I am very sorry if you've been made to feel bad in any way.

I suppose I might expect the parents of a Beatrice/Frederick type name to use private schools, vote conservative, go to concerts/plays regularly, send their children to ballet, riding and cricket and spend their holidays in their cottage in Cornwall whereas I might expect the parents of a Chelsea/Damon to use the local school, vote labour, go the cinema/bowling more than the theatre, prefer home to multitudes of extra curricular activities and spend their holidays in Spain or Greece.

Neither of those described lifestyles are better than the other and are both gross generalisations that probably have no bearing on reality at all. However, I doubt they're uncommon assumptions and I think that could be a bad thing.

usualsuspect - People don't generally look down at posh people

Oh, they do! I use to be a terrible reverse snob as a teenager. We had one private school near me and my friends and I were absolutely vicious to them -I'm not proud of this but I'm talking really nasty, sneery bullying - copying what they said in their more upper class accent, laughing at their uniform, asking them about 'daddy's credit card' etc

Thand God I've become a bit more mature and compassionate since then and learned not to care about people's backgrounds but I can assure you it works both ways and not just with children. I see appalling attitudes from adults towards both extremes of the socio economic spectrum.

names like anything else depend on the fashion

there are different class and aspiring class fashions.

the middle class and aspiring middle class sneer at the chantels of the world because everythings plae in society is defined by what or where it isn't.

i personally think that the oliver and olivias are over done and will be the paul and louises of the 2020's

it shouldn't matter, but I've often felt judged because of my name (it's now seen as chavvy, although it was unusual when my parents chose it). The principle we used (have 2 dds) was that suggested by a friend, can you imagine the name as MD of a large company? (this wouldn't be my aspiration for them as such, but you see the point)...

People make assumptions about other people all the time.

Polite people don't judge others based on those assumptions.

Labelling, especially children, can lead to under achievement. If my DS's teacher made assumptions about him based on his name rather than his behaviour and work I wouldn't think much of them as a teacher.

If you call your child Sebastian do you have to be earning over £50,000? If you call your child Sebastian and earn the minimum wage will you be judged as having 'good taste' or judged for using a name that belongs to high earners?

Is this thread a 'let's pretend we think everyone's the same but actually we know we're better' one?

usualsuspect A good teacher would never treat a child differently based on their name, but I think that to make an on the spot assumption of what a child and their family might be like based on their name is something that comes with the job. There are lots of things you look out for when building a picture of a child and their family. This is just one of them. One of the smaller things but still. I know people make assumptions about us based on my children's names. It's just part of life.

Is this thread a 'let's pretend we think everyone's the same but actually we know we're better' one?

No, it's a
do we think all the names are the same?
if not why not?
and
if not what could the consequences be and should we be worried?
thread.

Does mumsnet have a 'we'? We're not all from the same background on here!

One of my children has a name that could easily be placed on some people's 'chavvy' list. My other child has a very middle of the road name but I very nearly called her a name which many would call 'posh'. I'm not pretending to belong to any 'camp', I'm just fascinated by the whole 'what's in a name' thing.

My dd has a classic MC name ,but we live on a council estate so your assumptions about her would be wrong

Don't worry, I don't feel bad at all. I find it kind of funny, although I feel a bit sad for people that do make this kind of assumption as to me it seems quite shallow.

So my daughter is a Chelsea. I grew up in a house owned by the church; had a private education in Oxfordshire; I could tell you who I vote for but then I'd have to kill you; lifetime National Trust members; no ballet, but we do latin American and ballroom (met my husband in a ballroom); never been to Spain or Greece, we go camping in a farmer's field in Wales (old girl guide spirit); don't have a tv, so no sky; don't drink; don't smoke; when we go out it's a dinner dance or theatre (favourites Carmen and The Nutcracker). :o

I judge pretty much everyone constantly.

lol ok Kladkakka, assumptions well and truly busted there!

So that is two posters who have children with names that defy stereotypes. I think I might be a 3rd (my oldest is Savannah - could be 'chavvy?' - but I work in a private school and live in the rural home counties).

So, where do these assumptions come from??

What about foreign names?

I don't think you can go wrong with strong traditonal, biblical names.

John, Peter, David
Anne, Mary, Rachael

O/T is Rachael spelt with or without an A? I always spell it with, but it seems more common without!

I do wish I could put some spectaculars from the school roll on here - but they are just so unique it would be obvious if you know them and I'd be sacked!

The only ones I can do is 2nd hand telling by a collegue in another school with 3 Nigerian children called Mama, Papa and Nana.

I do have a bit of thing about shortened names though - a friend called her son "Danny" - why not Daniel and have it as that on the birth cert but use Danny" as pet name? That also goes for Sam/Samuel, Tom/Thomas, Ben/Benjamin, Jack/John/Jonathan, Liam/Billy/William etc - JMHO - its nice to give a child a choice. I also have another friend who called her son "Alfie" before it was popular - and she bitterly regrets it - the other two children have mainstream names.

Mind you, I do like some non-mainstream names - Sky (so pretty)

We all have names. All of our children have names. I think it's disingenuous to talk about 'chavvy' and then wonder if those children whose names are considered 'chavvy' will be treated differently.

The term 'chavvy' is offensive.

I teach adults and vulnerable young adults. The last thing on my mind is to make assumptions based on their name. Are you only talking about 'english' names? Do you make judgements about children who are called Fatmata or Kwame?

Yes, I think we should be worried if some of the opinions on this thread are anything to go by.

At university, there are so many Toms, Rebeccas, Emmas/Emilies, Elizabeths, Charlottes, James, Lauras and Hannahs that it become obvious that any name can be at the extreme end of any set of expectations. I teach a very polite and hardworking Chelsey, though.