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Original poster

Nanny turned into Nanny for hell and a nutter (long sorry)

184 replies

scrummummy · 17/12/2011 22:00

Have posted in childcare but thought I'd get more traffic here. Help

My DH sacked the nanny on wed, it was a last straw type moment. Many things led up to it ie taking them to her house every day, not telling who the children were coming into contact with and only find out from DD1 (5) or what DD2(3) said (ish). Going to McD every day and buying them chocolate and ice cream (ice cream is health cos it contains calcium was the answer) every day, even though we specifically asked for this not to happen. Slightly more important was late taking to and picking up for school (sometimes 30mins - 1hour late take and pick up). Finally, last two straws, spent Tuesday in hairdressers get hair cut coloured and washed with DD2 in the buggy for the whole time. Last straw, was on Wednesday left the house with no keys, didn't inform me until 1 hour before school pick-up - to my yahoo email while I was at work didn't phone my mobile or work number, didn't phone DH mobile or work number, I was lucky I checked my email during my late lunch. I immediately phoned her repeatedly with no answer. So left work to get to school for pick up, called DH, he left work cos I asked him to sack her there and then, so that she couldn't make up excuses and try to talk me out of it, he's strong at this than me.

Thanks if you've read this far, this is now when the "fun" starts.

She had left her bike at our house. My DH told her to come and collect it in an hours time, giving me the opportunity to get home and calm down. She didn't come and collect it. That evening DH rung her ask when she was going to collect the bike and she said the following day.

I'm at home the following day to look after DD1 & 2 as we now no-longer have child care. I asked DH to put the bike outside in front gated garden so I wouldn't have to talk to her when she turned up to collect it.At lunchtime I saw someone who looked very much like her take the bike.

Following day DH is at home looking after the children and a Taxi arrives, driver says he's come to collect a bike, DH says its been taken. Next DH gets a call from the police, making an enquiry on behalf of the Nanny as to where her bike is. While this is going on at home I'm getting email's demanding money for the bike. DH explains to the Police Officer that the bike was taken the previous day, by he assumed the Nanny.

Overnight I get more and more weirder emails demanding more money for the bike as DH has either stolen it or put it in the bin, like the keys she claimed she couldn't find (we have three sets of keys on the mantelshelf, for her to take).

So after reading the overnight emails, DH contacts the police to discuss the matter. Later today a Police Sargent turns up at the door asking for the bike, DH invites him in shows that we have no bike, goes over all of the above with the PS. Show him the emails, PS talks to the Nanny (who has given him a different story) comes back to us and tells us that he has explained to her that there is (in his words) no case to answer and will only file an incident report and sends her on her way.

So WTF do we do if she turns in to a "From Hell" nanny as we have a new nanny starting in Jan and we are worried that she might do something reckless.

Help/ word of wisdom has any one dealt with a situation similar to this? Smile
Can tell you more about the madness if you want to have more shits and giggle

OP posts:
MidsomerM · 17/12/2011 23:20

My understanding of the bike thing is that the nanny left the bike in the side passage between front and back, all day every day when she was working. On the day she was sacked, OP expected her to collect her bike. However, when it got to evening and she hadn't collected it, they brought it in so it wasn't outside overnight. Then in the morning they put it back in its usual place for her to collect. Seems reasonable to me.

nannynick · 17/12/2011 23:21

Wrongful Dismissal case may be possible though I'm not sure if Nanny would get anything beyond pay in lieu of notice. So no difference to what they are getting presuming that the OP is already paying in lieu of notice.

Not calling to say she was at A&E does sound a bit odd, she also didn't tell her husband. Maybe there was no phone signal but the hospital would have had a payphone somewhere.

KatieMistletoe · 17/12/2011 23:26

Wrongful dismissal relates to the failure to follow contractual obligations for dismissal. The OP's nanny may have a case for unfair dismissal depending how long she has worked for the op and the nature of dismissal.

KatieMistletoe · 17/12/2011 23:28

It may be possible to minimise this retrospectively but I'd need more details before I could advise further.

Laquitar · 17/12/2011 23:29

That makes sense Midsomer.

This happened on Thu? And you have found allready a new nanny starting in Jenuary? That was quick. I hope you have checked references.

Original poster
scrummummy · 17/12/2011 23:29

KatieMistletoe
It's a long post, I didn't put in all the details of her misconduct dealt with both verbal and written via email, of which her behaviour did not change. She was with us for only 10 weeks of which there was a number of incidents. How would we have conducted a disciplinary hearing? unless you mean by listening to her blame DD1 & DD2 for her indiscretions. As DH pointed out one day to her, "your the responsible adult act responsibly". We gave her the benefit of the doubt on numerous occasions. DD1'a teacher complained to me several times about her behaviour - such as collecting DD1 45 mins late (reason - DD2 didn't want to leave McDonalds a ten min at most walk from school).

OP posts:
WorraLiberty · 17/12/2011 23:30

That does make sense put like that midsomer

allohora · 17/12/2011 23:31

I'd pay. This deceitful loon knows where you live and sounds capable of anything.
My goodness, I would thank my lucky stars your kids are ok after such negligent childcare.
I would set down in writing the reasons why you sacked her (and yes make it a compromise agreement if you like but she sounds unlikely to sign).
Repeated lateness, the food and the haircut sounds like GM to me.

WorraLiberty · 17/12/2011 23:31

Did she sign and accept the written warnings though?

Laquitar · 17/12/2011 23:33

Katie OP says she went back to work in Sept. Unless she had the nanny before.

Sillyoldelf · 17/12/2011 23:34

Mm- you still have not said how you found this lady ? And it does seem quick to have already found someone else .

Original poster
scrummummy · 17/12/2011 23:37

going to bed now, will resume in the morning

But she did tell my DD1 that she couldn't do Jan or Feb as it didn't suit her but her cousin would do it last week!?!

I started to look for a new nanny for January and have spent the last few weeks interviewing and checking references, (did for her but what really does a reference say)

OP posts:
KatieMistletoe · 17/12/2011 23:37

Yes but you still have to go through the legal process. You cannot just give warnings without hearings. You may not like or agree with what she says but you have to follow the process or you risk her taking action against you.

In normal circumstances you give a letter notifying what the allegation is and offering her the legal right to be accompanied. Then you hold the hearing, explain the issue/allegation and give her the opportunity to respond. Then you adjourn, think over what was said then do further investigation (unlikely to be necessary from what you've said) or reconvene and give decision. You give written decision letter and include right to appeal. For appeal you pretty much repeat process.

There is one circumstance where instant dismissal is allowed that might be relevant to your situation.

I am not saying you do not have grounds (I would have dismissed her too) but you have to cover your arse and do things properly.

yellowraincoat · 17/12/2011 23:42

Give her the money for the bike. I don't know why you didn't just hand it over to her in person in the first place.

WorraLiberty · 17/12/2011 23:42

Well references can say an awful lot really, especially if they're from previous families in her care....

Are you sure she's reputable and qualified Nanny?

I only ask because there are an awful lot of people around here who are willing to turn a blind eye to qualifications etc, and tend to pay (usually foreign, broke women) minimum wage.

Laquitar · 17/12/2011 23:43
WorraLiberty · 17/12/2011 23:45

That's what I'm wondering.

I can't imagine any qualified and experienced Nanny acting in this way.

That would be her whole career that she's trained for and the reputation she's built up...down the pan.

nannynick · 17/12/2011 23:46

Can't see where the OP says they have found a replacement nanny. Am I missing seeing that bit?

Most nannies in my view would not be acting the way this nanny has - certainly not the nannies who post on Mumsnet. I would wonder about how this person was found, the recruitment process, reference checks that sort of thing. However knowing that only helps to point to where things may have been missed, or not looked into enough. End of the day, this person wasn't doing the job as their employer wished them to do it and thus disciplinary action was taken, finally resulting in termination. If nanny decides to claim Wrongful or Unfair dismissal (I didn't think unfair dismissal could be claimed in first year) then that is between the OP and the nanny and thus why I suggest to the OP that they keep all documentation and make notes about the procedure they followed to terminate the employment.

scrummummy are you now going to look for another nanny / already have another nanny lined up, or are you going to consider other childcare types?

Notcontent · 17/12/2011 23:47

She sounds like she wasn't very good at her job, but unless she is completely mad, I do think that the bike was stolen and you should have offered her money for it.

Also, I think it's very odd that she didn't have her own set of keys to your house. I say that as someone who has been a nanny employer for many years. It makes me think that you didn't trust her from the outset...

Laquitar · 17/12/2011 23:50

yy Worra.

Also, she found a poster (Kate) who knows the legal site and is willing to give her free advice. And she goes to bed? ?

Me thinks there is no legal contract thats why she doesn't sweat.

And she didn't even thank Katie Hmm

Original poster
scrummummy · 17/12/2011 23:51

KatieMistletoe
Obviously you're a lawyer, but there are grounds for instant dismissal such as punching your boss - or so I've been lead to believe, never having punched a boss. If this is an urban myth then I'm happy to be corrected.

God! no wonder the cost of childcare in the UK is so bloody expensive.

How would I get the time to arrange a hearing, review, adjournment, review. My BF DH is a Lawyer (admittedly in Financial Services) so I'll get him round for a chat tomorrow and check with him.

Issues were explained in detail - such as neglecting to feed the children, not telling my DH when he got home from work only to be told by DD1 when she was put to bed that she hadn't eaten since lunchtime.

OP posts:
Laquitar · 17/12/2011 23:53

side

nannynick · 17/12/2011 23:58

This thread is moving too fast for me to keep up...

But she did tell my DD1 that she couldn't do Jan or Feb as it didn't suit her but her cousin would do it last week!?!

What? Why is your now x-nanny talking to your DD1 about not being able to work Jan/Feb. That's something they should discuss with you - the employer - not a child.

"didn't suit her" - how strange, wonder if we all wish we could not come to work if it didn't suit us to do so Hmm

Her cousin could do it - yeah right, we can all just send someone else in our place.

scrummummy - references can tell you a lot. Verbal references should be obtained as well as looking at written references from many years back. Sure you can't always be certain but you do tend to get a gut feeling with people you meet, do you like them, do they seem genuine, do your children like them, do the verbal references check out ok, does their work history seem reasonable (any gaps and short periods of work explained), do their ID documents check out. All that sort of thing can help. Then there is the probationary period where either side can terminate the arrangement at short notice, so both parties involved can make sure things are going smoothly.

Remember to include the P45 with their last pay slip and ask them to notify you of any changes in address between now and May 2012, as you will need to send P60 to them once it can be produced (after end of financial year).

Original poster
scrummummy · 17/12/2011 23:59

NannyNick-
we did contact previous families all was fine but short time so don't really know.
did question but was told it was a short term post.
Money wise we set up with a nanny umbrella company to pay her (sorry but we couldnt go more than £18,000 a year) but she wanted cash or for us to not pay NI or TAX we told her that it was impossible because of the umbrella company. She asked me to stop paying the umbrella and pay her the full amount in cash and she would " sort it herself" I said no.

She had a contract as advised by the nanny umbrella company all legal.

OP posts:
KatieMistletoe · 18/12/2011 00:01

I'm not a lawyer - I'm an HR professional with a qualification in employment law. I also employ a nanny.

Yes, there are grounds for instant dismissal, as I have alluded to, but all that happens is the disciplinary process happens afterwards. I am happy to point you to the legislation and practical advice. If you use an agency like NannyTax they have legal advice includes in your premium.

It looks like you've fallen into that classic trap of employing a nanny and failing to realise this makes you an employer and that a whole load of regulation and procedure comes with that. If you will not or cannot follow the legal processes then you have to accept there is a risk you will find yourself at an employment tribunal.

NannyNick unfair dismissal usually applies only after a year but there are some exceptions that count as automatic unfair dismissal.